Russians are employing this dastardly new technology called “mines” which no army on earth has encountered before, least of all those of the NATO members like France, Germany and the UK.
I love soviet tactics, its literally finding out countering western overcomplicated and extremely expensive wunderwaffen with the cheapest shit
super advanced jets? outfly these 9 missiles that we can replace instantly
Long distance stealth bombers? Attach rocket boosters to a plane that scares the US for decades
Its hilarious
Oh you’re doing some weird thing where you amass all your force in one point in order to cause a breakthrough, which you then push as far as you can? We make deep battle lines and disrupt your logistical capabilities.
Oh you’ve got super fancy tanks? Have you heard of landmines?
Create a whole naval doctrine centered around carrier’s and their defence? Hypersonic cruise missile that blows it up in one hit, rendering almost 80 years of NATO doctrine fucking useless. Hell, even the DPRK doesn’t but somehow america doesn’t.
Super complicated top of the line tank hailed the world over (leopards), gets owned by dudes with soviet t72s and t90s
Super complicated top of the line tank hailed the world over (leopards), gets owned by dudes with soviet t72s and t90s.
The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree. Tigers in WWII got owned by the T-34.
People talk a lot about its design, but first off: transmission broke. Secondly the German cats might’ve been designed well (I disagree on a lot of forms) but if they can’t be produced, and they can’t be utilised effectively in the war that they are created for, then their design isn’t actually good. Design isn’t just a questionbof “who can think up the coolest thing?” It’s also - and much more so - a question of “what is realistically possible?”
Saying Soviet design was “worse” because it was simpler or not as fancy is silly. Soviet design was better, because while it might not have as many fancy doodads, it was actually able to be produced, used, maintained and repaired. What good is your tank if it never even shows up on the battlefield?
It’s the same with the F16s Ukraine is allegedly receiving. This supposed wonderjet can’t handle dirt on the landing field, it can’t deal that well with rain, and it requires very specialised crew. I dunno if it’s stats are better or whatever, but it doesn’t matter if it can’t even take off.
And this attitude is so typical for the west!
“Our leopards will crush the enemy”
they might’ve, if they didn’t run headfirst into landmines before anything else happened.
Our bastions in Afghanistan are filled with high-tech, they will crush any engagement with the Taleban ".
they might, if they weren’t perpetually undermanned by people too tired to stand because a child with a rifle kept the base on high alert all night.
Our chinooks are able to transport troops anywhere.
They might be, if you had any troops to transport.People also tend to forget that the T-34 was operational in 1941 but the Tiger didn’t appear on the battlefield until about a year and a half later.
There are plenty of Nazi war diaries of German troops pissing and shitting themselves when they found that their anti-tank weapons couldn’t hurt T-34s or KVs in 1941.
There are plenty of Nazi war diaries of German troops pissing and shitting themselves when they found that their anti-tank weapons couldn’t hurt T-34s or KVs in 1941.
although not to be a downer, this is mitigated by the fact that t34s were very rare at that point (as the soviets were smack dab in the middle of rearmament). They mostly encountered the weaker BT-7’s and T-36 and T38. It took until a year or two until they were really fucked. The Soviets were the only side that truly knew how to win that war, their main tank could go at very high speeds while 1v1ing the tiger tank. Germans were fucked by 43.
🤓 the vmf didnt operate hypersonic missiles
super advanced jets? outfly these 9 missiles that we can replace instantly
Not just the super expensive jets, but pilots that take years and hundreds of actual flight hours to train to be minimally competent.
Meanwhile, some random faceless operator casually presses the launch button from hundreds of miles away (Soviet/Russian Integrated Air Defense System (IADS) are highly networked) and your Top Gun Maverick is dead.
Where’s the evidence that the Ukrainian soldiers have better training? Blind assumption that Western training is inherently superior?
It’s because their training is higher quality, more extensive and better. It’s just doing worse because they don’t know how to fight the Russians, which they are trained better than they’re just doing worse because the Russians are fighting in a way they’re not trained to fight, they’re trained to fight in a better way which is doing worse against the Russians because they’re fighting differently which is worse than the way the Ukrainians are fighting which are doing worse because they’re having issues with…
They say Russian POWs are complaining about lack of training, though they of course provide no source for this except for a general handwave of “plenty of interviewed.” Others have posted a lot of different sources (with references!) which claim the Ukrainians are generally ill-equipped and barely-trained.
Their response? Ridiculous, the Russians can’t be better trained than the Ukrainians because thebUkrainians are trained better than the Russians.They say Russian POWs are complaining about lack of training, though they of course provide no source for this except for a general handwave of “plenty of interviewed.” Others have posted a lot of different sources (with references!) which claim the Ukrainians are generally ill-equipped and barely-trained.
this is why you should never take much stock from what POWs say while in their enemy’s custody. from neither Ukrainian nor Russian POWs. It’s easy to be like “oh, but they should know! they’re first-hand witnesses of what they’re talking about!” and that can be true but there’s no way of knowing if they’ve been threatened to say what they said, or if their words have been taken out of context, etc.
If a thousand POWs say nothing, but a single one says “Oh yeah, the Russian/Ukrainian Army actually is doing these horrific acts, I totes saw them doing it, they ordered me to do it, and uhh they’re about to collapse!” then that singular opinion will be shouted from the rooftops and it will be generalized and taken as gospel by the opposing side. Propaganda is about emphasising certain facts or opinions over others, even if those certain facts or opinions are held by a tiny minority and are patently false.
Also there’s an inverse survivorship bias going on here.
The least trained troops are going to be the most likely to be captured so what statements they make is going to be reflected by whatever the weaknesses happen to be that were contributing factors to them being captured.
They got overrun? Those who are captured are very likely to complain about lack of numbers and lack of support.
They were completely outmatched by better trained forces who used better tactics? Those who are captured are very likely going to complain about lack of training.
Their supply lines were interrupted? They’re almost certainly going to complain about a lack of supply.
Never underestimate that those who are captured are probably going to be engaging in some degree of cope.
What you hear in the western narrative is largely shaped by all the strengths of the Ukrainian side and all the deficits of the Russian side (and these often get exaggerated and even universalised). But it’s unusual to have much focus on the Ukrainian deficits and the Russian strengths.
Their reserve conscripts are no match for our army of forced volunteers!That’d be my guess
You see, we are experts at a tactical doctrine that has been optimized to brutally crush the forces of third world nations after a decade of sanctions. I think it’s silly to expect us to be ready to face a foe with as many or more bombs than us, but this doctrine has led us to victory for decades.
I am now hearing that our strategy didn’t even exactly work when recently applied in Afghanistan, or back in Vietnam, and Iraq is a coin toss as well, but what’s important is that we’re experts in it. For example, we successfully reduced Libya to a Mad Max style country in record time, and we’re working on repeating that success in Ukraine.
And in the end, what really matters is we made a lot of value for the shareholders in the military industrial complex.
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There’s a theory that articles like you posted are actually damage control. They need to shift the blame for AFU (apparently) sending waves of conscripts at entrenched defense lines. So they are falling back to the usual tricks and will claim it’s “outdated Soviet tactics”. Can’t allow public to question what the “superior NATO training” actually entails.
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NATO tactics assume air superiority
Ah good thing no enemies of NATO know this and have invested a ton of resources into SAM technology!
No, no, no. Air superiority is when your planes are more expensive. You see, the more pricey the plane the more superior the air. Missiles are cheap, and thus can’t contribute to air superiority.
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Curious. They claim NATO exists as self defense against a peer enemy, yet their strategies only work against small, relatively defenseless countries!
I mean, has NATO ever tried any of it’s strategies on it’s peers? Can we say they don’t work if they haven’t?
The most they’ve done is wargames and after the Millenium Challenge 2002 shit I don’t know if their wargames could even begin to count as an attempt to even model conflict with a near-peer
that’s honestly a great point i hadn’t thought about that
- NATO is forcing completely absurd tactics and strategies on the Ukrainians that has cost tens of thousands of lives, and this is why we need to support Ukraine even more with more NATO training and wonderweapons!
no more half measures walter
The Ukrainians are much better trained than the Russians! It’s just the fact that the Russians are cheating by having a MIC of their own
Don’t forget, they’re also saying that Russia is using human wave attacks which also isn’t fair.
Their Human Wave Attacks
Our BraveCivilian PopulationSoldiersWhich We Forcibly ConscriptedFighting To The Last With Naught But A Molotov And An Old Rifle“When the one with the rifle gets killed, the one who follows picks up the rifle and sells it to an Italian fascist”
The 300 Spartans were also better trained. Still got merxied by Xerxes.
One thing that never seems to get brought up in discussion of the battle of Thermopylae is that the Spartans also brought ~900 conscripted helots to fight for them (according to Herodotus, Diodorus Siculus estimated it closer to 1000). They were still totally outnumbered (combined forces of the city states was somewhere between 5,200-7,700 men compared to the 120,000 that fought for Persia).
But the bulk of Spartacus army being untrained slaves conscripted into fighting somewhat degrades the idea of this elite fighting force™ that works like 300 like to pretend they were.
Oh yeah that movie is hot fascist garbage.
There’s so much emphasis on how the Spartans are the dangerous, tough, manly men, the only force that can save the West™ from the removed other.
My favourite scene for this is when Leonidas yells at the Greeks for not being professional soldiers, 'cos IRL some 400 of those would’ve been from Thebes, which not only also had a professional military, it had a larger and better trained one, and would already have defeated Sparta in battle multiple times by this point.
My favourite scene for this is when Leonidas yells at the Greeks for not being professional soldiers, 'cos IRL some 400 of those would’ve been from Thebes, which not only also had a professional military, it had a larger and better trained one, and would already have defeated Sparta in battle multiple times by this point.
Ahhh so the Americans looking down on the Vietnamese, the Chinese, and the Taliban despite losing to them is actually glorious Western Culture ™ inherited from the Greeks.
Essentially. And Thebes would later humiliate Sparta so thoroughly in a series of events bordering on slapstick that Thebes became the dominant power for a time https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1x9np5fys8
sparta had one of the best propaganda campaigns that sprang forth after the humiliating loss of a king and his elite guard at thermopylae.
the fucking thing is STILL working
The longevity of this propaganda is truly astonishing, and it’s not surprising that a group of people as fucked as the Spartans are well-known such a reference point of supposed heroism in the West’s increasingly fascistic culture.
There is no actual historical evidence that the Spartans were militarily superior to anyone else. They were militarily insignificant by the time and actual myth about them had emerged after the war against Persia through their propaganda. For instance their military capacities were laughable compared to the Macedonians, let alone the Romans. But the time of the Roman invasion of Greece they became little more than a tourist attraction.
Actually, Thermopylae was a disproof of the Spartan strategy that they should try oppose the Persians on land. But the Spartans then tried to insist that they should try that AGAIN, opposing them similarly along the Pelopponese. The Athenians knew that this was wrong, and that they could far better face them at sea and by retreating from the mainland. The Athenians actually had to trick the Spartans into following their plan, hence the battle at Salamis.
Honestly the Spartans contributed little if anything to human culture.
Also reminder that the the Spartan elite would annually declare war on their own helots every autumn, giving them the right to murder them at whim, and this was probably a right of passage for the young men.
There is no actual historical evidence that the Spartans were militarily superior to anyone else
except winning the pelopenesian war & dominating the greek states for decades. they were just a random city that accidentally won the largest war of classical greek history? you can say their reputation is inflated but they obviously were top of the class in military matters during their (brief) heyday
how fancy you can swing a sword but things like discipline, organization, morale, stamina, courage, etc., training, etc
the sources for the spartans make clear the emphasis for their military program was not in producing people good at ‘swinging a sword’, but well-drilled and disciplined units. lots of myths are spun about thermopylae but you can’t say the spartans there lacked those characteristics.
nor was thermopylae ‘proof’ of a bad strategy, the greek alliance hadn’t set out to defeat the persian army in detail with that small force, it was a delaying action that very likely aided the preparations of the cities to the south and contributed to the final victory–which was not borne solely from Athenian naval victory: they also defeated the persians on land.
i’m with you for the (attested) picture of sparta being a horrific society, but you don’t need to create a parallel myth of spartan insignificance to prove that.
The only things Spartans were trained better at was catching and killing slaves. Their prowess is ahistoric propaganda.
…Wait that actually makes thema very good comparison to NATO.
good point!Pretty weird how 300 portrays Persia as a slaver tyranny and the Spartans as live free or die hard chads, but in reality Spartans fought with helots (slave conscripts) and Persia had much fewer slaves in comparison. The east must always be evil, project all our western sins on the east.
Listen to this quote on this period of Iranian history:
On the whole, in the Achaemenid empire, there was only small number of slaves in relation to the number of free persons and slave labor was in no position to supplant free labor. The basis of agriculture was the labor of free farmers and tenants and in handicrafts the labor of free artisans, whose occupation was usually inherited within the family, likewise predominated. In these countries of the empire, slavery had already undergone important changes by the time of the emergence of the Persian state. Debt slavery was no longer common. The practice of pledging one’s person for debt, not to mention self-sale, had totally disappeared by the Persian period. In the case of nonpayment of a debt by the appointed deadline, the creditor could turn the children of the debtor into slaves. A creditor could arrest an insolvent debtor and confine him to debtor’s prison. However, the creditor could not sell a debtor into slavery to a third party. Usually the debtor paid off the loan by free work for the creditor, thereby retaining his freedom.
So they had slaves, as did many empires of the time, but relatively few and mostly debtors working off debt to their creditor directly and not a massive system of war slaves like Sparta had.
NATO tactics assume air superiority.
I keep harping on this point again and again because I really cannot get across how fucking stupid it is: YOU DO NOT ASSUME AIR SUPREMACY OVER ANOTHER NATION’S AIRSPACE, YOU FUCKING INCOMPETENT IDIOTS. YOU CANNOT PROJECT AIR POWER 500 MILES DEEP INTO A NATION WITH A COMPREHENSIVE AIR DEFENSE NETWORK, RADARS, AND SAM SITES. YOUR STEALTH TECHNOLOGY IS NOT INVINCIBLE, AND YOUR SHITTY OVERPRICED BULLSHIT F-35 WILL GET SHOT DOWN AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND THIS IS WHY YOU REFUSE TO DEPLOY THEM ON ACTUAL FRONTLINES.
Then again, since NATO keeps doubling-down on this idea it just means they’re more likely to get fucking annihilated anytime they fight a near-peer in conventional warfare, so critical support to the failson Wunderwaffen generals I guess?
NATO has an offensive doctrine (despite of what they claim to be), so it will always need air superiority to invade another country.
The USSR (Stalin) did the right thing by immediately investing into air defense technology starting from 1945, because they figured out instantly how the Western capitalist countries (and what would eventually form NATO) would behave.
One of my favorite Stalin trivia bits is that he wrote a personal note to a factory berating them for not making enough Ilyushin fighters.
You have let down our country and our Red Army. You have the nerve not to manufacture IL-2s until now. Our Red Army now needs IL-2 aircraft like the air it breathes, like the bread it eats. Shenkman produces one IL-2 a day and Tretyakov builds one or two MiG-3s daily. It is a mockery of our country and the Red Army. I ask you not to try the government’s patience, and demand that you manufacture more ILs. This is my final warning.
Verbage like a disappointed dad lol
YOUR STEALTH TECHNOLOGY IS NOT INVINCIBLE, AND YOUR SHITTY OVERPRICED BULLSHIT F-35 WILL GET SHOT DOWN AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN
I absolutely need a variant of the “Sorry, We Didn’t Know It Was Invisible” poster but for an F-35.
Lol, what us this referencing?
During NATO’s “intervention” in the Balkans, they sent what was at the time the world’s most advanced and only existing model of stealth fighter, the F-117, to bomb some shit.
Serbian air defence shot one of them down, and not even by accident, they just straight up saw the “stealth fighter” on radar and smacked it with a missile. Later they put out this balling propaganda poster dunking on the Americans.
I think it says a lot about the countries NATO has been fighting that something like “assume air superiority” isn’t laughed out of the room. It’s because they are mostly in the business of destroying third world nations and haven’t fought wars nearly so much as campaigns to exterminate resistance.
It’s a fundamental flaw in the fascistic thinking of the West. Assuming superiority. “We are the civilized, evolved supreme people, and they are primitive subhumans.”
The assumption is nonsense but completely consistent with NATO transforming itself from a force designed to fight a peer military to a glorified colonial gendarmarie following the collapse of the USSR. They drank their own Kool Aid about the end of history and are paying for it now.
Hey remember when the US gassed Vietnam with Agent Orange?
Similar to when they dropped smallpox on North Koreans?
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Yeah, except real life.
Well, real life to the Ukrainians. It might as well be a game to the libs cheering it on from their armchairs.
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we’re crushing Russia using only 8% of our budget. Never mind the blood. Never mind the bodies of Ukrainians this cave is carved out of.Wine cave warrior is a fantastic term btw.
The wine cave warriors are the like the militant faction of the treaterati
When’s it my turn to have a cave of wine?
Mom says it’s my turn in the wine cave.
armchairs
I think the ones we get in here are mostly sat in gamerchairs tbh
“My superior training assumes you punch yourself multiple times in the face.”
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US foreign policy is actually just one long shitpost
Better trained is when you run headlong into long range fires, minefields, dragons teeth, AT trenches, and several layers of fortifications, under skies controlled by the enemy, after months of PR so they know you’re coming, hoping your wunderwaffen and inherent superiority will carry the day
French aristocrat knights, c. 14th century: “how dare these English peasants shoot me with longbows!!! Where’s their chivalry!!!”
(Actual military history may vary)
“To teach them a lesson I will ride towards them, down this muddy hill while wearing sommuch armour I cannot stand up on my own. What could possibly go wrong?”
i know you’re doing a bit, but only jousting armour was too heavy to stand in. would be hella shitty to be in full plate if you couldnt move
One night I went down the youtube rabbit hole of dudes in full plate showing off their mobility. One dude even swam for a short time doing a sorta breast stroke thing.
westoids can’t into material conditions even during war
KEK
