- cross-posted to:
- palestine@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- palestine@lemmy.ml
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This is definitely one of the most interesting attacks that’s ever happened. It certainly doesn’t look like an accident. If it was indeed Mossad: take a bow, you’ve earned it. That was a pretty slick move. That was probably a difficult op to pull off. Gotta respect the craft, even if you disagree on the method.
Its not rocket science how they did it. What is the impressive part? Are we really just going to say civilians don’t matter? Is it impressive to you because of how many people were hurt?
In no way is it required to respect the craft or the method.
I wonder if you wouldve said the same thing about 9/11
9/11 targeted and killed civilians. This attack largely struck Hezbollah militants, who are in open hostilities with Israel. Doing things this way is far better than the seemingly indiscriminate bombing in Gaza.
You know not everyone in Hezbollah is a « militant » right? They have a large political party and civilian governance apparatus. This is terrorism, nothing new to Israel.
To take this to it’s logical extreme, how do you feel about assassination attempts on high ranking Nazi officials? They’re non combatants, after all.
And I’m sure Islamic State and the Taliban have non-combatant elements too.
I don’t mind Israel defending against militant groups that fire rockets into Israel. I do mind them carpet-bombing civilian populations. This pager-thing seems to have the hallmarks of an operation that manages to cripple Hezbollah with a minimal loss of life and even fairly low civilian casualties. I much prefer Israel do this over the alternatives.
As does america have non-combat elements too.
The US army does indeed, and they would be valid military targets. People working for the EPA, perhaps not so much. Hezbollah however is structured towards support for the militant arm, as the Lebanese government handles civilian tasks.
Well it seems its up to the attacker to decide what is considered valid military targets. Al Qaeda viewed 9/11 as a valid military target.
Indiscriminate killing is always bad, no matter how targeted you think it is. In this case it was mass maiming, oh and a few kids died right? That’ll teach em to stop being bad people won’t it!
Whats scarey here is the amount if energy stored in smart phones. Pagers hold a fraction of the energy and the application here to the smart phone is the same.
I read in a NYT headline that they were pagers with explosives added in.
Bibi really wants a war with Hezbollah, doesn’t he? I mean you can’t call it defending Israels safety anymore when you provoke any and all responses every other month with a missile here, a bomb there and now thousands of bombs everywhere. This is just another measure to keep Netanyahu in a conflict so that he doesn’t have to bear the consequences of multiple corruption cases against him and the dissolving of his coalition outside unity cases in a war. Why is Europe and the US still covering for him? What is the rest of Israel doing?
Are they not already at war with Hezbollah?
They’ve been killing each other pretty much non stop for 40 years.
What’s that if not a war?
Damn. This must be one of the most terrifying cyber attacks of all time. Like, Mr. Robot level of breach and execution.
In that show they rig the UPS batteries of server buildings to blow up, this is basically the same idea on a smaller scale.
Either that, or they compromised the manufacturer of the pagers and put small explosive devices in there. Truly legendary and insane.
no way it was just the batteries.
batteries burn but don’t detonate with shrapnel
it was altered devices with explosives added.
Yeah they got into the supply route and added c4 to all those pagers. Makes me wonder how many pagers or smartphones have added explosives still.
Shrapnel, no, but Lithium-Ion does explode. Especially on a full charge
No way did lithium batteries kill eight people.
I did not say they did, but they can explode violently
Cool video. But that looks like what I expected. The videos of the pagers are small direct explosions and not really the heavy flame and smoke of the videos.
That powerbank in the bus… whoa… and those guys with the ebike in the elevator… stuff of nightmares.
They have over-pressure vents and will vent pretty violently and catch fire, but should not explode due to pressure build up.
They still explode in some cases. Plenty of clips of li-ion not just catching fire but exploding similar to how a firework might explode.
Probably not. It was almost certainly the case that these pagers were already connected to explosives, probably to be IEDs. All Israel would have had to do is page the pagers to detonate them. I can’t think of any other logical explanation.
I don’t think the thousands of pagers built this way really count as “improvised.”
That being said, it makes me wonder if this went in any way according to plan - 8 deaths and 2750 injuries is a large scale attack, don’t get me wrong. But they’ve now announced Mossad has compromised the supplier of the pager, which they will undoubtedly audit, and instill new policies on device security. I wouldn’t be surprised if that means they discover a lot more compromised electronics, allowing Hezbollah to pinpoint the compromise. Because 2750 survived, you now have 2750 people very interested in finding it.
In all, for 8 deaths, they’ve made their own work harder.
That being said 2750 injuries could be a large enough number to scare members out of the org.
Yeah, I’ve been wondering how the fuck they pulled this off. If it turns out that the only pagers that exploded belonged to Hezbollah members, then that would signal to me that this was done entirely digitally.
I’ve heard that batteries (can’t remember if it was laptop or phone batteries) contain the energy of a small grenade, but getting it to release that energy all at once without physical access is absolutely fucking wild and has serious fucking implications for device security.
I’ll save you time. Licensed factory in Europe, making Chinese beepers, was compromised or owned by Israel. They then put explosives in the pagers and set them to explode when paged a certain code.
They knew hezbollah was the purchaser, and would disperse them amongst its members.
I think its stupid unless it stopped some imminent horrible attack. Otherwise, Israel has given themselves away, and only killed 8 people for it. Maybe they had trouble rigging them to steal their communications.
Specifically in Hungary, same country that has been voting with Israel in the UN and also has a Fascist government.
It sure makes manufacturing involving explosives much more easily to go ahead if the local government has approved of it.
I’m curious what this will do to the “Made In EU” brand in the rest of the World.
There was already an article I saw saying it will have a chilling affect on western electronics to at least some degree.
I wonder how they did it. Was the firmware hacked to make the batteries ignite or were separate explosives implanted in each pager?
Almost certainly it was explosives. Mossad very likely designed a functioning pager that contains explosives but looks identical to the original pagers and this is effectively a supply chain attack.
Israel might be the baddies…
None dare call it Terrorism.
Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims.
While it’s likely there were civilians hurt by this, the target was undeniably Hesbollah. So no, not terrorism.
Stunning that you’re being downvoted. This was a brilliant attack on a group that actually attacks Israel actually indiscriminately on the daily.
Jews and cops are always in the wrong on this platform.
There you go conflating Jews and Israel. Apart from that you have an arguable point.
Israelis and cops just doesn’t sound as snappy.
It’s less antisemitic though. Please don’t conflate Jewish people with Israel, it’s caused enough problems as it is.
I would agree with this if they somehow only harmed Hezbollah severely. That was not the case.
I agree, but it’s still a step up from dropping a laser guided bomb on a 10 storey apartment building because somebody in Hamas might be there.
I guess.
National order isnt based on tit for tat. If someone commits a war crime against you it doesnt mean you get to do it too.
In my opinion the time of day they chose to blow them shows they wanted as much collateral damage as they could.
What’s the advantage of making excuses for committing war crimes?
Is there any time of day it’s not atrocious? Seems like any time would have basically equal risk for collateral casualties.
To be effective it all had to be at once. It seems that they waited until the pagers were being used to coordinate a fresh wave of rocket attacks with promises of more to come before setting them off.
Because that time of day is when the most people will be out in public. It seems deliberately designed to cause as much damage as widely as possible. Likely to cause fear in the population.
Is there any time of day it’s not atrocious? Seems like any time would have basically equal risk for collateral casualties.
Then maybe it shouldn’t be done at all.
Maybe all an army has to do to take over the entire world is being their families to the front. Can’t shoot back at them because their families are there. So they pretty much win every engagement. Problem solved. No more wars.
And you are saying noone is allowed to fight on their own land, as it endangers the public.
At a certain point it stops being worth it. If sending a brainwashed 11 yo to blow up a checkpoint means you can no longer trust having any technology near you, your family and friends it might cause hesitation.
Wishful thinking, they aren’t fighting because they want to. Noone likes violence.
Likely because the bulk of those wounded by this attack were not Hezbollah
I don’t even know how you’d reasonably expect to only injure your targets in an attack as widespread and remote as this one. Seems blatantly indiscriminate at best.
Likely because the bulk of those wounded by this attack were not Hezbollah
What makes you think that? These pagers were bought by Hesbollah to be used by their guys.
This goes to show that Israel could have taken out
HezbollahHamas leadership at any time… there was no need to raze Palestine other than to move people out so that Israelis can move in and rebuilt.Aren’t you confusing Hezbollah with Hamas though?
He did. But the proponents of Greater Israel do actually include Lebanon. They also include Jordan, Syria, parts of Egypt, Parts of Saudi Arabia, and parts of Iraq.
This ideology is dominant in the ruling party of Israel.
Anyone else confused about how these bombs are actually detonating? Articles say they are detonating via a text message sent 3x in error, theoretically causing either a spark or a “closed circuit” like a different article explained. The article (from al jazeera) says they have to look at the message but there’s video of one igniting in a bag.
I’m curious because I think these pagers may actually constitute a public safety risk, similar to how heavily landmined areas risk exploding even decades later on someone unrelated to the initial conflict.
Nothing in an electronic device, save for a very overvolted capacitor, could come anywhere near to as explosive as these were. Even LiPo batteries don’t explode like that.
These were explosives planted in the devices when being manufactured.
Not sure if you’ve seen videos of the explosions or the aftermath.
Both, al jazeera source says the explosive inside is PETN. What I’m asking is how tf did text messages and whatever in the walkie talkies ignite a spark strong enough to ignite the PETN? Is that true? Or is it possible some of these are still live or ignited in a faulty way? What is the risk to the public?
Afaik such an idea was nonsense previously. Why are we taking their word that this is sophisticated at any level when they’ve been simply brutal up to now?
What I’m asking is how tf did text messages and whatever in the walkie talkies ignite a spark strong enough to ignite the PETN?
Pager with firmware that activates an output on date/time X/Y and triggers an ignition signal. That signal is sent o an actual detonator in the device, which sets off the explosive.
Radio with DTMF receiver that activates an output when touchtone 4 is received over the air, or alternatively if the radio has GPS, another date/time activation via firmware.
Both of these things are relatively trivial for a nation-state to pull off.
So yes, in both cases it’s possible that faulty devices are still around. However, if all the rest of your group has had exploding pagers and radios, most people in the same group would have dropped their still-working pager or radio into a bucket of water by now. There’s probably a few, and they’re probably being carefully taken apart right now to see how it was done.
Afaik such an idea was nonsense previously.
It’s not nonsense, it just takes planning and resources. And now that people know it is possible, buying and using any sort of equipment for your group without having the nagging concern there might be a bomb in it is impossible. And that’s a pretty powerful limiter.
Is this a cyberattack, or pre-planted explosives?
My dad used to have one and it runs on single AA bsttery. It will burn if exploded but I doubt will that make “man fell on the groud bleeding.” Newer models might use recharable batteries, yet the BMC (logically thinking) should be sperated from the communication part as charging have nothing to do with it. How are you going to use SMS to hack a part of the system which isn’t connected?
If it is pre-planted explosives, that’s just wet work and nothing to talk about it.
Of course, the attacker can do a supply chain attack (by threating/hacking the manufacture, excluding explosives) as a stage to make the cyberattack possible.
NYT has a link up which it claims has been verified. It is a video of someone at a market who had one of these in their messenger bag. The video shows a decent size explosion, which blew a big hole in the bag and knocked the guy to the ground.
I doubt you could make an explosion that big with a AA battery. They must have planted the stuff in some massive supply chain hack.
Iran’s ambassador to Lebanon, Mojtaba Amani, was among those injured by the pager explosions on Tuesday, Iran’s Mehr news agency reported.
Attacking ambassadors is a great way to become an international piriah.
Why did he have the pager tho?
Hezbollah is a legitimate political party in Lebanon, with millions of voters.
Ambassador, communication device …
Communication with whom? These pagers were ordered by Hezbollah.
an eight-year-old girl was among those killed
And what was she doing with it? /s
Obviously for getting in touch with them. That’s what ambassadors do. Anyway, doesn’t matter, Israel will never have a use for ambassadors.
What was ambassador doing with Hezbollah exclusive pager?
Isreal wants to start ww3!
Israel has a reckoning coming. The mercy they have shown is the mercy they will receive. I wish they would stop.
I’m no fan of Hezbollah but how is this different than spreading land mines? Even if you kill civilians in an air strike at least you can claim there were enemy combatants there. Here it is just “Eh, we’ll just kill people at random and see what happens.”
These were pagers specifically ordered by Hezbollah. Random civilians wouldn’t have had them.
Ah, yes, the 2758 people were all Hezbollah.
Most likely most of them were though. I mean I don’t think many people outside Hezbollah were using pagers, not to mention that most likely they tampered one or two batches of them only.
I am just wondering what the official government of Lebanon is thinking about this incident because in my opinion that’s a huge blow into the sovereignty of a foreign country. Imagine something similar happens in Israel or the US, do you think those countries would sit on the diplomatic table and negotiate?
The problem with explosions is that they injure everyone nearby, not just the person with the explosion in their pocket.
One of the deaths was a kid
How many injuries, I wonder.
It is extremely cool that we continue to take “Everyone wounded by these pagers was Hezbollah” at face value once again.
This, from the same organization that bombed hospitals, schools, and refugee camps while insisting every one of them was a Hamas command center.
College campuses across the US/Canada will be holding memorial services, no doubt.
