• the_post_of_tom_joad [any, any]@hexbear.net
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    11 months ago

    Gotta start wondering if Joey and the DMC et al are losing on purpose at this point. It would take nothing to win this presidency against Trump. 8 mean the barest break in the beatings would be enough for us plebs. But i think they kinda liked the open grift not to mention the donation train.

    In a perverse way, a Trump presidency would legitimize the Dems (and this false democracy) for that much longer.

    • 420blazeit69 [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      11 months ago

      Democrats are trying very hard to win while playing by the rules of capital and empire. They can’t pivot to winning policies not because they are trying to lose, but because all the people who’d seriously consider those policies are drummed out of the party.

      • ReadFanon [any, any]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        This but also capitalism has reached a very late stage in the US and Bernie-esque policies, while probably still achievable in a practical sense, are probably enough of a threat to the interests of capital that it might have motivated Business Plot reboot or it’s possible that it would disturb the fragile balance of the market enough that it might be enough to cause the house of cards to start collapsing.

        Think like if the US nationalised healthcare or intervened in the real estate market and started providing public housing - there’s a non-zero chance that this would pop a bubble in the market that would cause a ripple effect throughout the other bubbles like in the finance industry such as BlackRock which might just level entire sections of the US economy.

        I’m lowkey hoping that Tesla goes belly-up in the near future and this is the catalyst for exactly what I’m describing above.

      • ReadFanon [any, any]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        I had some degree of faith in this before but idk, he seemed to get reined in somewhere along the way after he started to stray too far from obstructing US foreign policy and into actively undermining it (think how he flipped on his position on the DPRK for some indiscernible reason - either he was on a grift and trying to woo the DPRK government and he entered into the following phase of trying to railroad his objectives with them and they said “Lol no” so Trump decided that they were terrible because they weren’t willing to play ball in exactly how he demanded they should, or the CIA had had enough of his shenanigans and decided to show him the Zapruder extended cut or they dug up the Epstein Cinematic Universe movies that he was on set for during the recording and they said pull your shit in or we’re really going to make you into a star.)

        Whatever the truth of the matter is, I feel like his policy on this stuff shifted pretty significantly and kinda out of nowhere. The dude’s clearly the most stable genius out there though so it’s hard to tell whether there’s something behind the scenes directly shaping these changes or if he’s just a wrecking ball careening that’s careening between one thing and the next.

          • SSJ2Marx [he/him]@hexbear.net
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            11 months ago

            I also remember during the Trump term a bunch of articles with titles like “the brave people on Trump’s cabinet who ignore his stupid ideas.”

            Clearly it’s far from total control since Trump still tore up the Iran deal and raised tensions in Israel, Korea and elsewhere, but I believe the deep state will defend NATO from him if they have to.

            • zed_proclaimer [he/him]@hexbear.net
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              11 months ago

              Nothing I would love to see more than a chud civil war between the Nat Sec deep state types and the Trump hogs. Heighten those contradictions baby

    • TechnoUnionTypeBeat [he/him, they/them]@hexbear.net
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      11 months ago

      Gotta start wondering if Joey and the DMC et al are losing on purpose at this point

      Of course they are

      It’s easier to do $1000 a plate fundraising dinners about how evil the Trump Republicans are when you’re fighting against them, far harder to do that shit when you’re in power

    • sisatici [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      11 months ago

      I think biden knows he would not have won even if he did not allow any genocide so he is doing whatever he wants to do. I remember his polling sucked even before all of this

  • Evilphd666 [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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    11 months ago

    “Israel-Hamas War” Why do they do this? Everyone knows they aren’t going after Hamas and juat using the whole thing to ethnically cleanse the land for their own. As some “final solution” crap. Why does the media insist on these absolute gaslighting labourous terms?

    I know it’s rhetorical just sick off seeing them all phrase it like this or "Iran-backed-Yemini-associated resistance group it’s so Winston Smith-ing. Who talks like this. They are doing it to actively remove “Gaza” or Palestine from the converstion. It’s annoying.

      • Greenleaf [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        Yeah at what point do you talk about pErSoNaL rEsPoNsiBiLiTy with Biden. There is no way Biden and every single person around him isn’t aware how badly his policies w/r/t Gaza are killing him with voters. And yet he continues on. If you know you are doing something to tank your chances of winning and you do it anyway, why is your eventual loss on us leftists?

      • culpritus [any]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        Biden’s unconditional support for Israel is a vote for Trump. That’s a statement that will break Blue MAGA brains.

    • Greenleaf [he/him]@hexbear.net
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      11 months ago

      I’ve mentioned this before, but no lib has been able to explain the mechanics of how Trump could be worse than Biden on Gaza; because Biden already has his foot mashed down on that gas pedal.

      Biden is giving Israel all the weapons they could want and then some. The administration is providing cover for the Zionist entity at institutions like the UN and ICJ, as well as domestically in press conferences and PR. There is not one iota of evidence that Biden has applied any pressure whatsoever on Netanyahu. So… what else is there for a president to do? Literally the only way a president could go any further would be to (openly) put US troops on the ground and bombers in the air. But everything about Trump’s past indicates that’s definitely a bridge too far even for him.

    • InevitableSwing [none/use name]@hexbear.netOP
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      11 months ago

      In the lib brain - American civil religion is the most important thing in the universe and voting is a sacred covenant. The typical r/politics redditor the night of election day will unironically say…

      Look, if people had turned out - Biden would have won and our democracy would have saved. But they didn’t so we fucking get Trump again.

      I’ll want to say - I dunno - isn’t the super-low turnout Biden’s fault?

      • DamarcusArt@lemmygrad.ml
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        11 months ago

        And then we’ll see these same types salivating at the thought of Trump’s policies hurting minorities because “They should’ve voted for Biden.”

      • ReadFanon [any, any]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        It’s wild how there’s so much entitlement inherent to that attitude:

        Um Sweaty, don’t you realise that you’re morally obligated to vote or else you will get my disapproval?

        Um Sweaty, don’t you realise that you’re morally obligated to vote for Our Guy™ or else you will get my disapproval?

        …gosh, why are all these people so out of touch??

        There’s a non-insignificant chance that if they managed to scold everyone into voting that people might actually vote Trump in protest and they’d need to reckon with that instead of, you know, chastising people even more. I don’t think it would be likely enough to happen but the fact is that it’s not completely off the cards. It’s more likely that you’d see a swing towards third party candidates and spoilt votes that they’d get infuriated over people “ruining democracy” by not adhering to the demands that these voters play by their arbitrary rules and they’d lament how the Dems “could have” won that swing state if only that 0.5% of spoilt votes had actually gone to Biden.

        In a broader sense this is why countries like Israel play with shorter sentences for refusing conscription and why there’s a lot of leniency built into how long you are imprisoned for and why imprisoning conscientious objectors for short-ish periods serves a structural function that supports the state; if you jail conscientious objectors for like 10+ years then you turn those very disaffected non-participants mostly into bitterly disaffected recruits who then start resorting to becoming Chelsea Manning figures or they start a culture of the ol’ classic Vietnam War fragging of commanding officers (tyfys to those brave Vietnam War veterans unironically btw) , either of which is far more disruptive than having the government put a tiny percentage of resistors into a temporary time-out.

        (Not shitting on any conscientious objectors here tho. I have nothing but love and support for them and I support their committment and personal sacrifices they make on ethical and political grounds. Just speaking about how the government structures and mitigates the threat these people are capable of posing.)

        In a similar sense, if you’re “conscripting” people into being compelled to vote then you risk blowback from that. And I’m not talking like countries that have “compulsory” voting where the government sends you stern letters or they make you pay small fines for not voting here.

    • Zetta@mander.xyz
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      11 months ago

      You guys are weird, abortion is on the ballot in many states and is a far bigger deal to the vast majority of Americans than anything happening in Gaza.

      Not that what is happening in Gaza Isn’t horrible or important but the reality is most Americans don’t care that much. Bidens gonna win mainly because abortion is on the ballet, and yes I will come back to this post when he wins to remind you I was right.

      • AbbysMuscles [she/her]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        abortion is on the ballot in many states

        Who should I vote for if I want to protect women’s bodily autonomy? The party that is limiting it, or the party that shrugged and said they won’t do anything to protect it?

        • axont [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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          11 months ago

          Yeah this is where I’m at. Why exactly is abortion on the ballot during Biden’s term? Shouldn’t we blame this problem on him then? Biden has very clear steps he could take to protect abortion. He could put clinics on federal land, or pack the supreme court with 10 pro-choice judges. He could do anything other than absolutely nothing.

          It’s also not on the ballot in my state of Texas.

      • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        ROE V WADE HAS ALREADY BEEN OVERTURNED YOU NUMBSKULL AND IT WAS OVERTURNED UNDER BIDEN YOU FUCKING DOOFUS.
        Dems have shown they do not give a shit about abortion rights, they didn’t enshrine Roe so they could beat you over the head with it.

        And hey FUCK YOU FOR DOWNPLAYING GENOCIDE. “Uhhh yeah what is happening is Gaza is totally horrible or important or whatever, but have you considered some bad things might happen to meeeeee?”
        There’s a line in the sand and the line is genocide. Next you will say “trump is worse” IM NOT VOTING FOR TRUMP. This whole “uhhhh the gop is worse” has now led you to support genocide instead of demanding the lowest of fucking bars be upheld.

      • axont [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        Biden is losing in polls at around the margin of voters who are deeply invested in what’s going on with Gaza. He’s lost the support of virtually every Muslim in America, and that’s important in states with a lot of Muslims like Michigan and Minnesota. He’s rapidly losing support among younger people, who are also the ones most interested in abortion rights.

        I actually do think Biden may win, but my gut says it’ll be a very funny situation where he wins the electoral college while losing the popular vote.

      • UmbraVivi [he/him, she/her]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        Why are you pretending that Biden isn’t currently in power and hasn’t been in power for the past 4 fucking years? Why has he done jackshit about abortion as of yet, and why do you think he’ll do something once reelected?

      • Tankiedesantski [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        Not that what is happening in Gaza Isn’t horrible or important but the reality is most Americans don’t care that much.

        I wish no harm on the American ruling class. My enemy is the American people.

      • robinn_IV [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        Bidens gonna win mainly because abortion is on the ballet, and yes I will come back to this post when he wins to remind you I was right.

        I’ll remind you constantly when he loses mao-wave

      • Evilphd666 [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        most Americans don’t care that much.

        Our foriegn policy has direct effects on global markets. Our excessive sanctions squeeze supply and drive up prices. Our overt and covert meddling in the Global South effect prices and eventually mass migrants. They’ll get frothingfash mad at the “invasion at the border” but they refuse to take that next logical past the nose leap and ask what is the root cause of this? They’ll move armies of trucks and tractors for symptoms, but refuse to see America for the damned monster it is despite people through the generations pointing to exactly the problem

        Fascists that control the finacial class in this country.

        Smedley Butler warned us they wanted to do a fascist coup. Eisenhower warned us of the investor-defense Military Industrial Complex. Kennedy warned us that those who are unable to protest in their nations for peaceful change will result in violent overthrows. Wesley Clark said we were taken over by a Policy Coup by the Project for a New American Century bolton

        It takes maaybe a few hours of cursory education to see finance corrupt politicians and finance manipulating foreign policy and how that directly effects prices at home.

        The knock on effects of this war and subsequent consequences in the Middle East, Africa, and Europe will directly be felt in American pocketbooks forever. Once it inflates, capital wants to lock in those inflated prices. That is the nature. Every dollar they earn, have earned, will earn is now worth less because they didn’t give a shit about some brown people being genocided.

      • Greenleaf [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        Legitimate question: is abortion on the ballot in Michigan, Wisconsin, Arizona, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, or Georgia?

        Because if not, then it’s entirely irrelevant. Totally irrelevant. As much as everyone talks about voting (or not voting} for Biden or Trump, for the overwhelming majority of Americans who don’t live in a swing state their voting for president is pointless. So unless abortion is on the ballot in swing states it’s a non-factor.

        Abortion does motivate people, and that factors into it if it’s on the ballot in swing states. But when you look at presidential candidates you would be hard pressed to find a candidate with as bad of numbers that Biden has inside and outside of his party. Not even LBJ had as bad of numbers and he dropped out of the race because he knew how unpopular he was.

        Edit: According to this map, the only swing state where abortion might be on the ballot is Arizona; and Nevada if you count that as a swing state.

        • Zetta@mander.xyz
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          11 months ago

          It’s going to be in the ballot in Arizona, I haven’t checked the others

      • nat_turner_overdrive [he/him]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        Bidens gonna win mainly because abortion is on the ballet,

        Roe v Wade was lost under Biden’s administration.

        Biden had control of the house and senate when he was elected and did nothing to protect the right to abortion.

        Democrats have been running on promises to codify Roe v Wade into law for decades. Curiously, they never actually try to make good on it when they get into office on that promise.

        You have to be a grade-A sucker to believe Biden is going to do fuck-all about women’s rights if he gets re-elected.

        • Zetta@mander.xyz
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          11 months ago

          I think I failed to convey my original point. The comment I responded to said this will be the lowest-turnout election in history and Biden will lose.

          Because abortion is actually going to be on the ballot in numerous states I think this may be one of the highest turnouts ever, and I think the people turning up to vote yes on protecting abortion will also vote for Biden, regardless of what he actually does for abortion.

          Fingers crossed if he wins they will actually make it federal law, but that’s not what I meant when I said abortion is on the ballot.

          • AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.net
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            11 months ago

            When you are wrong, when it turns out you’ve been a fool and are more wrong with this prediction than you can currently imagine, will you remember this?

            Will you take a single solitary moment to reflect about the foolishl reasoning that brought you here?

      • TreadOnMe [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        If Biden wins it will be because he convinced morons like you that “Abortion is on the ballot”. It must be nice to have no thoughts and just repeat advertising slogans. Do you just have “Eat Fresh” playing on loop in your head as well?

        If abortion is on the ballot, then go vote for that actual policy in your state. There is no way to guarantee that Democrats protect abortion rights even if elected, and their track record is piss poor. Electing Biden will do nothing about abortion in individual states, and we know that because he isn’t doing shit about those restrictions now.

        • Zetta@mander.xyz
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          11 months ago

          I mean I’ll be voting for Biden mainly because Trump’s a dictator wannabe (you guys like that right?) and Biden has sorta done an okay job supporting Ukraine with military aid, which I also support. Abortion is on the ballot in my state so I will be voting to support that as well.

          • panopticon [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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            11 months ago

            Biden has sorta done an okay job supporting Ukraine with military aid, which I also support

            You support a fascist coup regime

            I’ll be voting for Biden

            You support genocide

            • Zetta@mander.xyz
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              11 months ago

              ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I don’t believe Ukraine is a fascist coup regime, in fact I think that’s a better description of Russia except the coup part, Putin just has total control anyway.

              Either way since you seem to support Russia I will just state how much I love seeing the significant material and personnel loss Russia is suffering in the invasion. It is astonishing how significantly Ukraine has degraded their capabilities and displaced their status as one of the best armies in the world, and I honestly cannot wait to see what Ukraine does next.

              I don’t know what my favorite part is, Ukraine destroying/disabling Russia’s entire black sea fleet (they are too scared to use their remaining ships since they have lost so many) or that Ukraine has removed 10% (maybe up to 15% so far https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraine-strikes-may-have-hit-15-russian-refinery-capacity-nato-official-2024-04-04/) of Russia’s refinery capacity with drone strikes, and that number will continue to grow.

              • uSSRI [he/him]@hexbear.net
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                11 months ago

                Lmao “concerned” about genocide and cheering on fighting Russia to the last Ukrainian child. Fuck you for being excited about war.

                • Zetta@mander.xyz
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                  11 months ago

                  I doubt you will since you probably dislike me but check out the song Vicarious by Tool, read the lyrics.

                  It’s funny you highlight Ukraine’s losses when Russia’s are significantly higher. Ukraine gets to fight for their land as long as Ukraine wants to, you don’t get to say “oh think of the Ukrainian children” like you care for them.

              • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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                11 months ago

                Who gives a shit what you believe. Educate yourself before you open your mouth.
                The current government of Ukraine was literally installed via a coup in 2014. Do you not know your history? The US government hand-picked their stooges to run the place, a conversation between then assistant secretary of state victoria nuland and some other ghoul was leaked confirming this very thing https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-2607995
                Why do you think both Trump and Bidens corruption scandals were embroiled in Ukraine?

                Do not speak on things you do not know of. History didn’t start on October 7th nor did it start at the invasion of ukraine.

                The fact that you try to make this about Russia is only worse, you’re employing a poor rhetorical trick to misdirect the conversation to one of moral value with no relation to material analysis. No one here supports Russia, this a LGBTQ safe space you fucking idiot. We’re just not blind dogs for the US empire, uncritically cheering as hundreds of thousands are pointlessly thrown into a meatgrinder in order to sustain the imperialist west for a few meagre seasons more.

                Instead of trying for yet another poor dunk, try to employ your empathy or curiosity and consider (and then INVESTIGATE GODDAMMIT) why we might believe what we believe. You’re a fucking idiot if you think we’re cheering for Putin. Learn what critical support entails and learn why people argue that it is better NATO loses instead of Russia.

                • Zetta@mander.xyz
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                  11 months ago

                  Well I do appreciate some of the insight in this comment, I was under the impression hexbear supported Russia and I was confused about that given the state of LGBT rights there. I even considered making a post here asking that exact question!

                  I’ll do some more reading on Ukraine’s current government but doubt my overall opinion on supporting them will change.

          • AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.net
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            11 months ago

            Definitely, unlike you who loves freedom and democracy, we hate all people and think they should be lorded over by an unaccountable dictator who society has no influence on the decision of, no matter how unpopular that person is, we just want to force them through!

            Wait that’s Biden

          • TreadOnMe [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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            11 months ago

            Fuck Trump.

            Of course you would support continuing the wars, it’s your favorite past-time, liberal. You claim people don’t care about foreign policy, and yet here you are, making a vote based on foreign policy.

            Yeah, yeah, we know what you care about. us-foreign-policy

            • Zetta@mander.xyz
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              11 months ago

              My understanding of what a liberal is is just the first paragraph on Wikipedia and I assume that’s not exactly what you think of as a liberal? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism

              I’m not sure what I am politically, I’ve never given it much thought. I just vote based on who’s available to vote for and what they support specifically.

              • skeletorsass [she/her]@hexbear.net
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                11 months ago

                On here we use global definition of liberal. This mean that they support private property, capitalism, current world system, and the bourgeois rule. They can want anything from the strict austerity to the social democracy. Liberalism is the official ideology of the United States Constitution. Every politician in the United States is a liberal. Two party system do not allow anyone who is not a liberal to run.

              • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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                11 months ago

                My understanding of what a liberal is is just the first paragraph on Wikipedia

                peltier-laugh Hey I have a hard time parsing tone on text, are you doing a bit? You’re legally required to tell me if you’re doing a bit. This is great stuff.

          • Egon [they/them]@hexbear.net
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            11 months ago

            Trump’s a dictator wannabe (you guys like that right?)

            Ah fuck, you got us. Superb dunk.

            How can it be that you guys are all writing the same tired dogbrained cardboard cutout milquetoast shit, yet you all think you’re somehow the first to do it? How can you be this much of a basicass lib and still think you have any unique or new thoughts to share? At least try, please. Spend like 20 minutes of effort learning what the viewpoint you’re critiqueing is, your dunks would be so much better. You guys never do though, and why? Are you afraid you might learn something?

      • Poison_Ivy [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        the reality is most Americans don’t care that much

        But we do. And thats we refuse to vote for genocide enablers but I understand condemning genocide is a skill issue for you

      • AOCapitulator [they/them, she/her]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        Lmao bidens going to win because abortion is on the ballot

        You’re an absurd person, do you know that?

        Do you know that Biden is personally responsible for helping block enshrinning abortion rights into law at least twice?

        Do you even pay the slightest attention to the actions these people take, or do you just cheer and clap while reading press statements and Twitter posts

        Gullible fool

      • CyborgMarx [any, any]@hexbear.net
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        11 months ago

        You guys are weird, abortion is on the ballot in many states

        Yeah in specific state ballots you dumb fuck lmao, that doesn’t magically translate into turnout for the general election, especially considering Roe vs Wade was lost under Biden’s watch and he doesn’t support “abortion on demand” as he calls it

        Do you even support abortion, feels like you just picked an issue at random to try and engineer a gotcha, despite the fact you clearly had no idea about Biden’s stated position lmao try again

  • Dirt_Owl [comrade/them, they/them]@hexbear.net
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    11 months ago

    Democrats let America down by running a guy just as bad as Trump. Their incompetence, far-right policies, genocide funding and refusal to run an electable candidate have made Americans lose faith in voting at all. Liberals refusing to go left are every bit to blame if Trump wins.

  • Greenleaf [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    11 months ago

    @Gluebear mentioned the White House Iftar dinner. Here’s a full write up with selected quotes:

    Why Biden’s iftar dinner unraveled amid Gaza war

    Edward Ahmed Mitchell, the deputy director of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), also said the event was nixed because so many people chose not to attend, including invitees who had initially agreed to go.

    “The American Muslim community said very early on that it would be completely unacceptable for us to break bread with the very same White House that is enabling the Israeli government to starve and slaughter the Palestinian people in Gaza,” Mitchell told Al Jazeera.

    Several Muslim American activists said the meeting will be another futile “photo-op”, arguing that the Muslim community has made its position known over the past six months.

    “These photo-ops that they’re doing — these discussions that they’re doing to somehow show they still have the Muslim community’s support — are just pathetic attempts to make themselves look good at a time where their true colours have been seen,” Habehh told Al Jazeera.

    A key issue with such talks, activists say, is that the administration has been handpicking whom to meet with. A Muslim advocate close to the administration presented a list of credible Palestinian American leaders to invite for a meeting at the White House last year, but the government rejected the suggested individuals, one source told Al Jazeera.

    • BynarsAreOk [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      11 months ago

      Simultaneously “lol Hexbear MAGA are furious they can’t stop people from voting!” literally another thread here recently.

      They wont be able to press those two buttons.

    • BoxedFenders [any, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
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      11 months ago

      And with their bottomless stupidity, Dems will attempt to overcome this defeat by moving further right to appease “moderate” conservatives rather than courting the progressives that should be energizing their base.