Starting to feel pretty fucking precious that this is the only imperialist country that doesn’t have a burning flag emoji on account of it having a religious symbol on it
Meanwhile the IOF is plastering it all over their war crimes
Don’t tell me about
. That’s some weak-ass shit
Add the israel-cool flag now
We have had Jewish comrades here and in other posts in the past say it makes them uncomfortable. That should be the last word, full stop. That is in no way equivalent to random Zionists saying “Free Palestine” makes them feel unsafe. I am not Jewish but if I was that comparison would piss me off. If the big TC69 struggle sessions taught us anything, it’s that we always default to our comrades here when they say something isn’t cool and we always show grace.
I understand the anger, and that if such an emote existed you would use it as intended, but an emote of basically a Jewish symbol burning is just trouble waiting to happen.
It was likely an at least partly cynical move on Israel’s part to do so with their flag, and that sucks, but it is what it is.
We already have rules against bigotry that are vigorously enforced. It’s ridiculous to see an ongoing genocide happening and say oh no we can’t have a picture of a burning flag because some people might think it’s problematic.
Invoking a genocide so you can post an emoji on a shit posting forum is WAY too online dude
As Ive said elsewhere in the thread, I’m currently dealing with Zionists at my place of work trying to shut down all expressions of Palestinian solidarity, so not all of us have the luxury of dismissing this issue so flippantly, “dude”
All these Jewish comrades/other comrades in the thread saying why they aren’t cool with this idea, citing their real world experience as why, and you think WE are the ones not taking YOUR experience into account?
Are you picturing everyone else here but you just living in those star wars tanks when they aren’t posting?
Had deleted the comment, but since you clearly already saw it, I’ll restore it.
I’m saying YOU are the one being dismissive, since YOUR critique is essentially “you care about this too much.”
Burning Israel flag is likely to draw the wrong kinds of people and give chuds more fuel to criticize us in bad faith. I don’t think it’s worth it.
Unrelated, but does “Kill Arabs” give off “Blacks rule” vibes to anyone else?
Unrelated, but does “Kill Arabs” give off “Blacks rule” vibes to anyone else?
Given the sheer number of videos I’ve seen of Israelis yelling Death To Arabs, no, it doesn’t
Oh, I absolutely believe that Zionists believe this. Just commenting on the shittiness of the slogan and the crude graffiti vibes.
I’m
on this, but frankly the mods would clearly 
before they got out of hand. As socialists we’re all clearly able to distinguish Judaism from Israel (despite the depressing number of Jewish institutions backing this continual genocide 
)The mods work hard enough as it is. I totally understand if they don’t want to create extra work for very marginal benefit.
True, I’m not sure what benefit it’d provide at all. It’d ve fine to just have an Israel-cool flag with just the star if David replaced by text that says
Israel
:isntrael-cool:
:bombsrael-cool:
:shitsrael-cool:
:isntrael-cool:
okay this one is fucking art
isra-hell and the logo is just the state outline of new jersey
I think just removing the star of david would be better. Replacing it kinda feels like saying that it is interchangeable with what it is being replaced with.
is there any other country that has a flag that looks like israel’s flag minus the Star of David? wouldn’t wanna burn a different country’s flag by accident lol
all palestinian violence against israel is self-defense
I’m conflicted
On the one hand you do make some good points but there is something else to consider
If the Star of David has crossed the threshold from religious symbol to hate symbol then would having an emoji of it, even burning, be in good taste to their victims? We don’t have a :confederacy-cool: or a :nazi-germany-cool: flag emoji either and I think there’s a reason for that
The use of the Star of David by zionists has always been disgusting, I honestly don’t know what it will mean in the future but I really hope it hasn’t been tarnished forever by zionism
We don’t have a :confederacy-cool: or a :nazi-germany-cool:
I think it’s because neither of those states exists anymore, whereas Israel very much does
Having a swastika emoji, at all, would immediately be decontexualized and used as proof we are secretly fascists.
Same goes for a burning star of David.
Burning Confederacy, maybe fine, mostly because the movement around that flag is a complete joke
I’m not a Jewish person, but the imagery that immediately and involuntarily springs into my mind when I see a burning Star of David is that of people and industrial ovens. Personally, I couldn’t just decouple a symbol like that in my head from the more notorious of Nazi atrocities any more than if I were to try not to think of fascism when I see a swastika. I thought this was a common if not universal association, and that’s why we never had the emoji in the first place but I guess not.
Obviously, Israel as a state should burn and no one should have to hold back from showing their disgust and rage at it, at the fascist settler colonizers that make it up, and anyone who supports it/them. But expressing that rage by specifically using the most well-known symbol for Judaism on fire would, in a small way, be going along with the Zionist agenda to associate Judaism with Zionism.
@WhyEssEff@hexbear.net I’m totally with you on this, and I’m grateful you draw a hard line at not implementing that emoji. I hope the other mods and admins do too.
I think this is the win win compromise that will make everyone happy.
My cool pentagram wearing friends do not want to be associated with israel 🤮
The idea that the state of israel is satanically racist.
but god is the genocidal one. satan is chill
does the Semen Retrieval Team have a logo we can put on there?
Jizzrael
Replace the star with a poop emoj :israpoo:
I think this is unironically the best suggestion on this thread.
shitsrael
Palestinians are the only kind of people who cannot even express that they are oppressed without having to worry about the feelings of their fucking oppressors. The left and other allies of the oppressed would look ridiculous if this kind of tone policing was done against indigenous people anywhere else.
I don’t want us to bring in a burning star of david symbol, but it is absurd.without having to worry about the feelings of their fucking oppressors
TBF oppressors are always complaining about their feelings, but it usually doesn’t work because oppressors usually can’t cynically exploit their grandparents trauma.
deleted by creator
Oh, it’s because it has religious iconography on it?
Looks like an interesting standard to me, but I guess I’m just a heretical commie: Opium, heroin, fent - it’s all the same to me.
interesting as in what, exactly? you can say its always the same map or whatever but like, this is biased the opposite of the usual way, and personally I’m cool with that. the way I see it we offer a bit more grace to explicit nonchristian religious symbols (star of david, crescent) because they aren’t, you know, the global imperial core, and because the flags you list aren’t, for the most part, seen as primarily religious even if there’s a major element of it.
interesting as in what, exactly?
“Interesting” as in “double or more.”
because they aren’t, you know, the global imperial core
There’s lots of imperialists out there, not just Christians. There are plenty of atheist imperialists for that matter - as far as I can, atheists pretending to be theists are the actual imperial core. And though you won’t often hear me say it, there are also non-imperial Christians. And now and then, here and there, even Christians have been persecuted.
because the flags you list aren’t, for the most part, seen as primarily religious
A national flag is primarily a national symbol, not a religious symbol. Why would anyone see the Israeli national flag as primarily religious?
we offer a bit more grace to explicit nonchristian religious symbols (star of david, crescent)
This is more of a “lack of grace” for criticizing non-Christian iconography imo. I would hope a website that quotes Marx as much as Hexbear would have plenty of grace in criticizing any religion, so long as they are not attacking other members in doing so.
No, not necessary
Rethink having a burning star of David as a site emoji. You’re not missing anything, you can express all anti Israel and antizionist sentiment you want, and detail it with
and 
if you’d like. You’re not missing anything and you understand just fine why this site doesn’t need an emoji like that.You’re not missing anything and you understand just fine why this site doesn’t need an emoji like that.
Thanks for just assuming I’m posting in bad faith. Love to be patronized
Ah yes, the only good Israel
Not adding a burning the Star of David emote, apologies, but that’s the line I draw, being Jewish. I know that’s not the intent stated, but it still is as such. I’m not trying to say that Israel’s use of it is in any way legitimate, nor that I disagree that Israel is a genocidal apartheid state that deserves 1000 October 7ths for all the terror they wrought, but it just makes me viscerally uncomfortable to have an emote depicting that.
Full disclosure, but I’ve ended up in the middle of a conflict of my school where a bunch of Jewish teachers are flipping the fuck out about expressions of Palestinian solidarity and someone literally stole a free Palestine sign out of the only Muslim teacher on staff’s room. It’s very upsetting how much of the discourse around an ongoing genocide by Israel has been about the importance of making sure that Jewish people in the West are not made even a little bit uncomfortable.
I understand your feelings about this, and I’ve wanted to respect them in the past, but Israel is killing people en masse and flying that flag over the ruins of their homes. It should be burned, end of story.
you’ve twice now implied that you no longer care about the concerns of your jewish comrades, which i think is pretty bad in and of itself, but i really feel the need to point out that no amount of burning stars of david is going to improve the situation in palestine even a single iota. none of those people will ever see your fervent anti-israel posting. pushing so hard for an emote to be added to a niche communist website is a complete waste of energy that could be better spent doing anything else.
i’m not trying to be harsh but i genuinely think you need to reconsider the value of the demand you’re making
you’ve twice now implied that you no longer care about the concerns of your jewish comrades
That’s quite a stretch. It sounds to me like you are trying to be harsh, honestly.
I […] was content to defer to our Jewish comrades’ opinions on the matter. I don’t feel that way anymore.
I understand your feelings about this, and I’ve wanted to respect them in the past
how would you take these statements?
Like they are talking about the prioritization of a single matter and not simply disregarding the concerns of their Jewish comrades.
The only way I would read it differently, is if I were to assume that Jewish people only had concerns over this one matter. But that would be patently absurd.
Perhaps you missed the part where, in real life, I’m having to fight tooth and nail to allow students and teachers the right to express solidarity with Palestine, precisely because of Zionists I work with. Zionists who are explicitly using their identity as Jews to censor others’ speech. This is not an abstract issue, it’s a very real one where I’m having to stick my fucking neck out in a way that has real life consequences. Stick your condescension in a sack and take it elsewhere
If I’ll say it IRL, I’ll say it on the niche communist website, and you coming at me with the smarmy “it’s a waste of energy” bullshit is not going to change that. Why are you wasting your time arguing with me on a niche communist website?
the work you’re doing in real life matters and can improve people’s lives in some way. what you’re pushing for here doesn’t, and only serves to make people who are already on our side uncomfortable. i’m not being smarmy or condescending, but you are kind of being an asshole.
Dude, just settle for a flag modified to not have the star, it’s not that difficult.
What are you talking about? We don’t even have that, lol
We don’t but I think our kind and patient emote Czar would be happy to add that
Okay? I should settle for a hypothetical thing that might possibly exist at some point? I’ll get right on that
You are being obtuse, talking to you is like a prison. You can request it and it’ll probably be added within the day.
You are welcome to stop talking at any time
someone literally stole a free Palestine sign out of the only Muslim teacher on staff’s room
I’m sorry to hear that, being a Muslim in the west is a struggle that is often invisible to people, because there was never a civil rights movement in the west based around Islam. There are no Oscar-winning movies about Muslims winning a Supreme Court case, or getting a constitutional amendment passed.
But on the “burning star of David” issue, I would ask you to reconsider. Many Jews around the world are not zionists, and in fact many oppose zionism and especially the genocide Israel is currently carrying out in Gaza. Burning the star of David comes across, at first glance, the same as burning a cross on the lawn of a black person. It will draw in the wrong crowd, no matter the intention.
Also, I would never support having an emote displaying the prophet Muhammad. Why? Because there are 2 billion Muslims in the world and most of them are wonderful people. Are there a handful of reactionary, theocratic governments led by Muslim clerics, who have ruthlessly crushed socialist movements? Yes. Erdoğan is an asshole, and his attempt to destroy secularism and socialism in Turkey is despicable. But just because Erdoğan is using Islam for evil, as part of his right-wing ideology, that does not mean Islam itself is evil. It does not mean we should post cartoons of Muhammad everywhere, to spite Erdoğan. Being “precious” about posting pictures of Muhammad is, in truth, a sign of respect to Muslim comrades, not a tacit approval of right-wing Islamic theocracies. It’s a complex issue, but I trust WhyEssEff’s judgement.
there was never a civil rights movement in the west based around Islam.
Malcolm X: am i a joke to you???
If someone else who has access to the emotes tab agrees that I have too much of a conflict-of-interest here and wants to personally make it and add it, then I’ll argue my case and grit my teeth, even though I feel uncomfortable about it and think it invites in some issues that I’d rather not have to second-guess about. I’m not going to do it myself. Sorry.
There’s no conflict of interest here, I also fully support not adding a burning star of david emote. It would be an unforced error to do so and we’ve had this policy in place since the site started while still being vocally anti-settler-colonialist.
I can try to dig up the original afphoto file for :entity-cool: if you’re interested
ended up designing my own based on the stern gang’s symbol
other hexbear jews lmk if I’m having a brainfart (if so I’ll backtrack to blank white with blue bars) but I don’t think this specific symbol is very linked to anything but zionism
Wouldn’t the Jewish people be better off without a genocidal ethnostate claiming to speak for them?
We would, yes. I’m an anti-Zionist, of course. In no way do I support Israel. There’s just a line for me in regards to adding a pictographic representation of burning the Star of David that I’m viscerally uncomfortable crossing. If another person who can access the emotes tab decides to go over my head because this is that much of a conflict-of-interest, then I’ll plead my case and then grit my teeth about it, I guess. As the self-appointed emote czar, though, I’m not personally going to add it.
I’ve added other anti-Zionist emotes here:
off the top of my head.Thank you for being so patient in discussing this matter. I think you’re in the right about the star.
As a fellow anti-zionist Jew, I feel similarly. Thank you for your patience.
I’ve always appreciated that this is a line you draw. I’ve seen the “Why don’t we have Israel-cool?” “We thought a burning Star of David might make Nazis feel welcome” “Yeah fair fuck them” exchange a bunch of times, I think it strengthens the site’s culture.
I’ll add as many anti-Israel emotes as y’all and I can come up with except the one where we’re toeing the line into, and I hate to use this phrase as a cracker but I don’t know how else to describe it, generational trauma. I know the holocaust has been cynically weaponized by this freak fascist ethnostate to do unspeakable horror, but it’s innately uncomfortable even as part of the anti-Zionist diaspora to make something like this. It fucking sucks, and I’m sorry, but that’s why I scoured for any other representation of Israel that doesn’t invoke Judaism as a whole.
This might be my suburbanite americracker brain showing, but it’s really my only major line-in-the-sand. Sorry.
Nah this is a good call
Uncritical support.
