Here’s my two cents. It’s hard for people to keep up with the euphemism treadmill. There was a time when the word “female” didn’t have the negative connotation that it does now mostly thanks to co-opting by incels. It should also be stated that the word “male” doesn’t have the same negative connotations and it’s similar to how there’s slurs for black people but none for white people.
So why do people find “female” offensive? Well for starters it’s dehumanizing. Women is a less academic term and female implies some biological essentialism. I think the crux as to why it’s a big deal now is that women do not refer to themselves as females in the manner that men do. Men do not think of themselves as males, they do not call other men males, men call themselves men. male and female are simply outdated terms.
I suspect one day as society moves towards a more genderqueer position men and women will become unacceptable to say too. Idk. Like I think we need to acknowledge that there is such thing as a euphemism treadmill, that languages change, words become offensive or nonoffensive over time, and like all we can do in order to be a fucking decent human bean is to conform to society’s standards as to what is acceptable as according to the treadmill. Unless it’s some shit like calling the homeless, the unhoused. Then in those specific instances we got to run against the treadmill. But in this specific instance, we need to run with the treadmill on this one. Nothing feels better than conforming with society.
They figured this shit out on the 80s guys
There was a time when the word “female” didn’t have the negative connotation that it does now mostly thanks to co-opting by incels.
I feel obligated to point out that Ferengi in 90s Star Trek called women “female” and it was supposed to make you understand that they were misogynistic. So it’s not really something that started with incels over the last few years.
The “you sound like a ferengi” insult in response to people saying Feeeeeeeeeeeemale has brought us to this point. It has singlehandedly been a phenomenally effective tool in pushing people into seeing negativity in the word and has done most of the heavy lifting.
“it does now mostly thanks to co-opting by incels”
I don’t really get where this talking point comes from, its just not true. Have you ever browsed an incel forum to see what those hogs are thinking? They never refer to women as females. Ever. I’ve never seen it once in one of their spaces. Not on r/braincels, not on r/incels, not in incelsco or whatever new forum they’ve migrated to in the past few years. They exclusively refer to women as foids or holes.
Referring to women as females is very common in the African American community though.
female as an adjective is fine female as a noun is weird
Unless it’s some shit like calling the homeless, the unhoused
Yeah without any actual policy behind it it’s very silly. However the semantic change pisses off chuds so I’m not entirely against it. Critical support, like “sure let’s call them unhoused but what’s the plan to stop the problem”.
You could be correct about times changing. A few years ago I was reading research papers on various topics, and words like r#####d and n####o were used with full seriousness. Even if it’s silly that it came to this, it’s what it is, and there’s no point fighting it.
Pro-tip:
Never correct a person who refers to women as “females”
Don’t ever teach misogynists how to refine their language and to develop a more socially-acceptable way of concealing their attitudes.
Let them throw up those red flags immediately so that people can immediately avoid chuds who use this language.
shit like calling the homeless, the unhoused
I have a strong preference for “rough sleepers” because there are people who are in temporary housing, that are couch surfing etc. which don’t strictly fit into the term homeless but who experience precarious (and typically inadequate) housing and because some people consider places home, such as their cars (sometimes by preference), and devaluing what a person calls home because it doesn’t meet my personal definition of a home is kinda shitty whereas acknowledging that their home may be precarious or inadequate without erasing the fact that it’s home to them, I think, is preferable.
/rant
Correcting a misogynist is more likely to provoke a visible reaction than ignoring problematic speech. If it isn’t corrected, it becomes normal.
I mean, that’s kind of the point though.
I think it’s preferable that using the term “female” as a noun is normalised among people who see women as objects and that they continue using that term because it’s like a klaxon identifying people who are misogynists or who have latent misogynistic beliefs.
If we coach misogynists in ways to conceal their misogyny then it becomes much, much harder to identify them especially in social media spaces.
I’d much rather that these people loudly announce themselves to the people who know better than to blend in with people who are progressive and radical.
Teaching people to adjust their language doesn’t change their beliefs.
using “female” has been cringe for years outside of biology & certain healthcare settings. unsurprised reddit is still rehashing early 2010’s discourse
Was using female as a noun considered normal at some point? I genuinely do not know.
But if it was, it might not be a case of a euphemism treadmill, but a phenomenon related to the struggle for social recognition. When an identity goes from recognition from an outside perspective to recognition from an inside perspective, the name for it often changes. A similar thing happened/is happening with homosexual -> gay and transsexual -> transgender. The takeaway in the context of this conversation is that, unlike the treadmill, it might not be a repeating process.
its not incels my parents did that, and only when talking about women they dont like. Female is just what you say when you cant say bitch. also women do this too, women can also be misogynistic. my mom only called the women she hated at her job females “those females are always gossiping” “females cant get along, they all love drama” but her friends were girls or ladies.
My opinion: people need to chill. and also to understand that English is used by different people in various contexts. Not everybody grasps the subtleties of the language. For instance, if discussing something like “a product highly recommended for our discreet female audience” or stating “no problems have been encountered in the department for female prisoners” is considered appropriate, somebody might feel that writing “To look at a female’s behind” (as seen in the original r/therewasanattempt post) is also acceptable. And it’s no big deal.
Also, it’s a typical Anglo-Saxon harry potteresque
magical thinking, and obsession, with language, magic words and formulations. Censoring words just make them stronger. Stop being fucking puritains stupid ameriremoved. Scarlet letters never work. Changing words doesn’t change the world, activism about language is just slacktivism to feel smug and superior, and ultimately keeping the status quo as it is.I found a thread about this whole thing on r*ddit and the first page of replies were variations of “What? Why would they do this??”
Not one actual answer visible
People just do things for no reason because wokeness or whatever I guess.
“Women” is fine as a noun, but what should be used as an adjective if not “female”?
Isn’t this about using “female” as a noun?
Yeah that’s how I understand it. Like saying “that’s a female horse” is normal and fine.
The issue is saying “look at that female over there” or “she is a female”. That’s the dehumanizing shit, “look at that woman” or “she is a woman” is far less weird as well.
Because of the demeaning usage as a noun, some people are starting to get uncomfortable with even using female as an adjective, and you will hear people use “woman” as an adjective like “she became the first woman triathlete” which isn’t really right but it’s not that bad… I dunno, I’m a guy so take my two cents for what they’re worth, but I don’t think we should surrender the entire word “female” to weird online fascist nerds
I was confused for a sec but this makes sense. I guess I avoid spaces where incels post though because I haven’t really seen this at all.
I’m going with comrade Feinberg on this, i use woman for the gender identity, feminine for the social role and female for biological characteristics. If you need an adjective relating to woman, it’s womanly, if you need a noun relating to feminine, it’s fem / femme, if you want to use female as a noun you better be talking about a dog and not a human being.
if you want to use female as a noun you better be talking about a dog and not a human being.
But also don’t talk about dogs like that
Ehh, calling a female dog a bitch makes me feel like an old-time British lady
you gots the best takes yet again
Honestly, it’s mostly just a concept from some throwaway paragraph from Feinberg’s Trans Liberation: Beyond Pink or Blue that i’ve ran with and then spiced up a little.
nice!
It’s a good read, i think we even have a sticky about it today.
im start Tuesday! edit OMG ITS TUESDAY
There’s no slurs for white people?
Yeah I know, but OP literally said there was none so I’m confused
cracker isn’t a slur
it holds no powerglad to clear that up for you
