- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politics@lemmy.world
“With membership at new lows and no electoral wins to their name, it’s time for the Greens to ditch the malignant narcissist who’s presided over its decline.”
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Green party has been dead since Nader.
Pretending they had a chance in a voting system that can barely support two parties was kinda pitiable. Until we have RCV for federal elections at a minimum, they will never have a shot.
Until we have RCV
Whens that?
They have a shot, by joining the Democratic Party. The same way that progressives join liberals, make their voice heard, and let the voters decide.
A-fucking-men.
The Green Party should be the RCV party and that should be their main focus. After that then they and any other party would actually stand a chance. Republicans are actively banning RCV from being implemented and Democrats are slow walking it, but we need to keep pushing.
TBH, I don’t see it happening except organically from within the Democratic Party. If enough progressive Democrats get elected, I think it stands a chance to happen in our lifetimes.
Any democrat has a vested interest in first past the post continuing.
This is just not true. Places which are doing RCV are literally state at metro democratic strongholds. Democrats are literally the only ones pushing it.
Ive been thinking more and more that the only way forward for the green party may just be to pic a few states and focus on local races. Get control over city councils and some mayoralships. Hell, a green caucus in state houses could actually do some good
Yeah, to be relevant they need to win some elections in large cities and state legislatures. That would be the base necessary to start winning congressional seats and then work up from there. Because the Jill Stein narcissism tour every four years is clearly doing more harm than good.
And it would be the best thing in the world for the Dems. They need cogent and real opposition and right now they’re just running against crazies - which is important, but doesn’t do much for establishing an agenda. A functional Green Party would actually help pull the Dems back more to the left.
The best part of running for a state legislature or congressional position is that they could team with democrats to block the GOP, so unlike the presidential election you aren’t voting against your interest for electing a third party.
The fact that they’re not doing that but just going straight for an unwinnable Presidential election tells you a lot.
They are doing that. They win about 20% of the local elections they run in for council seats, etc. They hold 140 elected positions according to their website.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Green_politicians_who_have_held_office_in_the_United_States
Federal officials
As of 2023, no nominee of the Green Party has been elected to office in the federal government.
State officials
As of 2024, 8 Greens have held state-level office. However, only 3 were elected or re-elected as Greens.
As of 2024, no Greens currently hold state-level office.
Four current Mayors are listed, though only one “ran as green”. Seventeen Greens are in city and county councils.
Sam Seder has been saying rhis for a decade at this point.
Its how you build a political movement.
I remember in the late 90s the Green Party in my district was on a roll, culminating in the election of a member to the California State Assembly (one of the highest posts ever held by the Greens in the US). Then came Nader’s presidential bid and its perceived role in the election of Bush, which permanently crippled the legitimacy of the local party. They’re still doing great work with voter guides, legislative analysis, etc.; but they’ll never escape the shadow of Nader and Stein.
I think the only viable path for a third party now is to start a new one from scratch, and disavow presidential bids from the outset.
https://zeteo.com/p/exclusive-mehdi-interviews-jill-stein?utm_campaign=post
For those that don’t want to give Elon fucking muskrat a click. Fuck Twitter.
Is there a good article out there with highlights of the interview? I feel like this would merit its own post, it’s an amazing watch and very important to see for those still considering Stein a legitimate option.
Who needs party membership when you have unlimited money cheat code from daddy Putin?
What makes you think a politically irrelevant person like Stein would capture the attention of putin?
Oh hey wow who put that picture here.
They never organize, canvass, campaign… they never put in the work. It’s easy to sit on Twitter all day and disparage the Democratic Party (yes they have many flaws as well) and nothing else.
They’re lazy grifters.
What exactly did Jill Stein do with that $7 million for the recount? She was interviewed by Mehdi Hassan and he kept asking her why she won’t call out Putin when she has no problem calling out Bibi. Yes two things can be true at once. She just couldn’t explain why she refused to call Putin out on his war mongering and genocide.
Counterpoint: The Green Party hasn’t done much to keep people engaged. They killed themselves.
At least the Tea Party had a decent run and engaged with the people who would vote for them. Though, it let MAGA convert or overtake it, but the point still stands. The Tea Party did more in the 10ish years it existed than the Green Party has done in 20 years.
And Stein’s answer every single time this comes up?
“What about Gaza?”
She is literally an operative for Russia and the Republicans. This isn’t even a meme or conspiracy theory, it’s simply a plain truth.
I don’t understand how a genocide can be taken so lightly. Some people have trouble casting a vote for any political party that sponsors one.
I’ve given more details elsewhere, but the short version:
We can classify US presidential votes into three categories:
- Vote for the Democrat
- Vote for the Republican
- Vote third-party/independent or don’t vote
The most effective vote to make on an anti-genocide platform is #1.
Voting for a Republican is voting for a party that appears to be profoundly okay with the genocide in Gaza AND wants to start some genocides of their own (e.g. against trans folks, immigrants and racial minorities). This is the most pro-genocide vote.
Voting for a Democrat is voting for a party that has a fairly significant group that opposes the genocide, and which appears to be movable on the topic.
Any other vote is roughly equivalent to not voting. On the presidental front, there is no chance in this election that anyone other than a candidate from one of the main two parties is elected, and that’s also true for most senate or house races. (Possibly all, but I don’t want to make that strong claim since I haven’t actually researched all the races.) Voting for a candidate who you know won’t win is explicitly choosing not to have a say between the tho feasible candidates.
I do have one caveat though…
If you live in West Virginia for example, it’s a bit more complex. There your choice is essentially “the Republican or not the Republican,” so third-party/independent moves into category 1. However, then I’d argue that voting for the Democrat for president may still be the preferable response because if the Republican wins the electoral college but, (as has happened in every presidential election since 1990 except 2004) the Democrat still wins the popular vote, it further delegitimises the Republican’s presidency and the electoral college.
Every vote for Harris is stealing a vote from third-party candidates who represent real change. By sidelining those voices, you’re indirectly helping Trump win!
I see a lot of anti Stein rhetoric lately I understand the push to not let her drag the ticket from Kamala but I wonder how much is true and how much is news trying to sway my opinion
I would suggest you do your own research, but she’s run several times, has no real experience or qualifications, and has been shown multiple times to be benefiting (either knowingly or unknowingly) from both GOP operatives and Russian interference.
Personally I fully support third parties - if they do more than just show up as spoilers every four years. Jill Stein has been doing zilch to push the Green Party forward except in presidential election years. And as a result she’s doing more harm to folks who want more options than not.
Stein has been a known Russian asset and Democratic spoiler candidate for about a decade now, being “Green” has never actually had anything to do with her political goals.
It’s because she’s strong on issues that Harris is weak on…especially the ongoing genocide in Gaza. Stein agrees with the majority of the Democrats: we should quit funding the genocide. Harris wants to continue funding it.
Even if you assume she isn’t a bad faith actor, she’s still objectively failed to pass the one thing the world needs, the Green New Deal, and environmentalism is in the worst shape it’s been in decades.
That’s not all her fault, but her protest candidacy weirdness put Trump in office the first time instead of spending that time and effort on actual policy so…
Fuck off already?
Haha oh really. It had nothing to do with Hilary being the worst candidate ever? The authoritarian electoral college founded to preserve slavery? The rampant voter suppression by Republicans that Democrats refuse to stop. It was all her fault huh?
Certainly if she has been trying to effect real change in a realistic way, rather than an egocentric impossible run at the presidency…
Things would have been different. She was one of many straws, which if subtracted, would have prevented trump
So for that and that alone, she and the rest of the greens can fuck right off.
See the No Labels folks for a more common sense way to be activist on national level politics.
Greens would be great if they would focus on good, winnable races from the bottom up…
What that called again?? Uhh ‘grass roots’
She funded an investigations that showed Hilary had won a state that went to Donald Trump. But sure it’s her that doesn’t care about democracy not the Democrats that rolled over on not one but two elections where they likely won.
I’ll agree that Dems have given up way too easily, mostly based on naive “for the good of the country” white knighting.
It probably didn’t start with Al Gore and the hanging chads, but that would have been a good time to realize that sometimes these fights are existential
Doesn’t change the fact that Stein is currently a russian-funded spoiler and she’s a drag on the Greens and does great disservice to all of the non-major parties.
I hope No Labels and other serious ‘third paries’ spend time focusing on voting reform like RCV or similar. Of course, many nerds will (probably correctly) claim that RCV is flawed in whatever way and we should try to move to some other even more complicated system. And then nothing will happen and we will continue to be stuck in a bi-party system with smaller factions only ever having the opportunity to act as spoilers in national or even state-wide races.
Is she really responsible for the problems of the US Green party?
As near as I can tell the EU Green parties had a different trajectory. They initially started winning seats in parliaments on purely environmental platforms. Those MPs actually started pushing green agendas in various parliaments. That, in turn led to more people voting for them. Eventually that had to adopt policy positions beyond the environment and they tended to be pretty left.
The US never had Green party members in a position where they could actually do anything useful about the environment. That means they could never fulfill their primary goal in the US. So when they tried to branch out the same way the EU Green parties did, they just turned into a vague hodgepodge of leftists ideas.
Is there any suggestion that Jill Stein’s replacement would have any chance of saving the US Green party?
The issue is she sucks all the oxygen out of the room with her pointless presidential runs and does nothing for the four years in between. There’s an inconsequential number of Greens who run and win elections in small cities and towns or less consequential elections, and none of them have won any federal elections. A real party leader would recruit and foster candidates in large cities and state legislatures— and then get folks to run for the US House, the Senate, state governorships, and then the presidency.
Stein is less a party leader and more a figurehead who basically seems to be in it for the grift. And so US Greens (especially in comparison to those in the EU) are less a party and more just a convenient label for those of a certain bent that want to run as something other than as a Democrat.
The Green party is doing exactly what it was designed to do. It’s siphoning off eco-conscious Democratic voters just significantly enough to affect voting margins but not enough to win. To be clear I’m not saying that Even a significant number of people in the green party have that as a goal, but top down, that’s all it’s about.
We are a two-party system and they are allowing the green party to exist to use it as a wedge.
Every vote for Harris is stealing a vote from third-party candidates who represent real change. By sidelining those voices, you’re indirectly helping Trump win!
Hahaha hahahahahahahaha hahahahah. You’re hilarious!
Right?!
If Harris wants to win over Stein voters, this is definitely not the way to do it.
Harris wants to win over Stein voters, this is definitely not the way to do it.
This is true, I’ve already spoken to all 7 of them, they’re mad.
