I think a little clarification is needed. No. I don’t actually think everyone there is insane. I don’t care about the bans so stop trying to use that. HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point
Edit: Feel free to keep trying to brigade me. It’s not going to scare me to take this down
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Thank god for hexbear and lemmygrad though. Imagine the effort needed to block them all individually if spread over all the other instances.
Yeah, it’s actually helpful to have safe spaces for hateful assholes so they can be corralled away.
Its a safe space for them to be… away from me
On the other hand, an isolated community can also become a nasty brewing pot, reinforcing harmful behaviors and even intensifying them over time.
I don’t think calling them safe spaces for hateful assholes is accurate, but I understand frustrations with them.
They still get loose and troll .world while the mods there give them free reign and ban you if you report them for trolling. You can’t call them trolls, but they can call you a troll.
Before instance blocking was a thing I blocked individual trolls wheb I saw them and after about the fifth block I didn’t see a lot of hexbear, so it they have a few very loud individuals but instance blocking hexbear really made my browsing a lot more chill
lemmygrad? Oh, I missed that one.
Most instances have already blocked lemmygrad. Yours is one of a very few that has not.
If you’ve heard of Chapo Trap House that’s them. If not, most of those kids/idiots/trolls are the type of terminally online fake leftists that give other leftist a bad image in general. They were so ridiculous Reddit got tired of their shit and banned them a couple years back.
Seeing the ban coming, they financed and suffered alpha and beta of the Lemmy platform we all enjoy. Then, they chose to become the most GLBTQ+ friendly destination on the internet.
As it’s always been, they cope with the horrible events with satirical, sarcastic humor. And, in the middle of that will be a well-reasoned, nuanced, and quite serious post.
But, perhaps the part I like most is the struggle sessions. The entire community will heavily focus on a current topic, then hash it out with good faith discussion.
Their shit isn’t convenient or comfortable. It’s not easy to understand. And, I fucking love them for it.
edit: Lazy coders need choose a randomized target value and timing or be a moderator to avoid detection by the user. Perceiving is easy when your code is trash. Ask for help from an industrial engineer.
Their supposed support of LGBTQ+ is all for naught when they openly fawn after Stalin
There’s much to learn from Stalin. But, advocating his authoritarian means is a bannable offense there just as they are in any meritable leftist forum. They tolerate a minority of revolutionaries ideologically leading the lumpen as it’s a historically very well-supoorted position. But, that doesn’t extend to physical force as that’s also a historically very well supported position.
It’s much easier, convenient, and comfortable to demonized them than understand them. They even provided proactive assistance when many were deciding if they should defederate. They voted internally for defederation to defend their community from the medicrity of the masses.
If not enjoying the image posts of young Stalin as some sort of brilliant maverick is mediocrity, well, so be it. They are clowns, and their beliefs structure is just like trump claiming he “loves the gays”
Young Stalin is where the good stuff is. It’s his implementation of those idealistic principles that’s unethical.
The rest of what you’ve said is strawman. Most important is the implying that they’re all of one mind. Diversity of ideology is perhaps their greatest strength.
🥱
Literally out here defending Stalin stans
Ad hominem is literally the best you had when confronted with facts that didn’t fit the shallow narrative you chose.
Yeah they kept being able to back the most ridiculous claims and then suddenly I was like “oh no they were right all along” and got radicalized 🤷
Coming up with theory in an echo chamber isn’t hard.
and how they kept being able to back it up?
That’s the whole point of an echo chamber yes. You can say whatever you want without being challenged by other viewpoints and make anything seem plausible.
but they are linking a lot of outside sources. That’s what I mean by “backing their claims up”, studies about covid, about the ukraine war, about Israel, it’s not just someone making a claim and then everyone is nodding along.
What I am saying is they were able to completely upend the way I see the world and you just can’t do that by claiming thengs and linking to some other claims you make.
What you’re not accounting for is how they curate who is allowed to post in the first place.
As it’s always been, they cope with the horrible events with satirical, sarcastic humor. And, in the middle of that will be a well-reasoned, nuanced, and quite serious post.
Oh yes, they are so funny, misunderstood, thoughtful and nuanced thinkers.
F them and f you for defending them.
This ~1800 comment thread about whether lemm.ee should defederate with them is all you need for some eye opening, in case anyone needs that.
Above screenshot is from said thread.
The comrade in it actually suggests that there is a time and place for such rhetoric, it is just not right here, right now. you have to think politically and wait for your moment!
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Your portrayal of them just being made into regular peasants seems to me viewing the whole affair with more than rose colored glasses.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekulakization
All kulaks were assigned to one of three categories:[4]
Those to be shot or imprisoned as decided by the local secret political police. Those to be sent to Siberia, the North, the Urals, or Kazakhstan, after confiscation of their property. Those to be evicted from their houses and used in labour colonies within their own districts.By most people’s reckoning in most of planet earth they stole the lawfully earned property of kulaks and either murdered them or otherwise destroyed their lives. Treating them worse than most developed nations treat burglars and thieves.
If someone shot your grandpa and your uncle, send half your people to Siberia to die out there, and sent the other half to prison locally of course you would flee with whatever you could carry and of course you would at that point be an enemy of the regime that destroyed your life.
So if the original commenter’s great grandparents were kulaks who “suffered at the hands of the soviet union,” they deserved it.
I don’t understand your justification for what is ultimately pretty horrific treatment foisted on people ultimately just participating lawfully in society up until that point.
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America didn’t go from legally sanctioning a behavior to murdering the people today who were behaving lawfully yesterday even if they were immoral fucks. If you don’t understand that then you don’t understand how normal societies run.
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You don’t get to call directing state power against the petite bourgeoisie a brutal police regime when your government is supporting the most brutal dictatorships in Africa, whose violence is directed at the working class.
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The vital context is wielding state power against internal threats. Which literally every state must do to continue to exist. It’s not whataboutism to point out that the state you currently live in is currently doing far worse, for far worse reasons in a context where your criticism can only be used for anticommunism.
Would you say it’s constructive for an Israeli to be critical of gay rights in Palestine? Of course not, because divorced of context, it only carries water for imperialism
though, to be fair, kulaks are bad.
They were banned when reddit cracked down on any leftist thought, not because they were especially bad from what I saw.
They were banned around the same time as The Donald because everyone was tired of the shit both groups were doing.
The_Donald was dead amd had migrated to a non-reddit forum a month before the ban. It was typical “both sides” bullshit from a dude who always uses the kiddy gloves with fascists while throwing the book at any leftists
They were banned while saying John Brown did nothing wrong and that slaveowners deserve to die.
Sounds pretty cool to me.
While true there was a lot more behind the decision than that final post. They had been fighting with the admins for a long time.
evidence? I see people say this but from what I remember the mod team was repeatedly stonewalled by the admins, or at least that was their claims, and I don’t think the admins ever disputed that
Hardly, the mods kept refusing to do anything about the brigading of other subs. To the point the admins stepped in and removed a couple of them. Then afterward the sub decided they’d rather go private than comply. At this point most of back and forth is wiped out because the sub is locked. But there was far more going on for a while than their claim that one post shut them down immediately. They had already been in trouble for a couple months.
https://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/bp39gb/chapotraphouse_gets_a_call_from_the_admins/
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fmfirtv1vndy21.png
I wasn’t clear enough, what I meant wasn’t that the admins literally never said anything to the mods, I meant they made it relatively unclear what exactly they needed to do to stop getting warnings and eventually getting banned. no conversation, just relatively vague commands from down high also, as you can see in the SRD thread it was never made clear if they were removed for anything besides the john brown posting. However, even this is more clear communication than I remembered so I’ll admit fault on that at least.
funny thing I found browsing the thread is this comment about why chapo got banned, which mentions brigading, something people constantly accused/accuse hexbear users of doing:
…
The second aspect of this is that chapo is becoming so large that it is capable of effectively “brigading” threads without any direct co-ordination on the subreddit. By this I’m referring to stuff like the police dog situation, in which any meaningfully upvoted thread on /r/aww and other “cute” subreddits gets a shitload of “40%”, “ACAB”, and other anti-cop rhetoric. While screenshots of this often get posted to /r/chapotraphouse, the vast majority of the time this is AFTER the thread has already been “brigaded” by chapo users scrolling through /r/all or the specific “cute” subreddits. This behavior is not against the TOS, but it is incredibly annoying to /r/aww mods and therefore concerning to the admins, because the “cute” subreddits are the easiest to manage and please, and more importantly, the most advertiser friendly. When chapo users fuck that up, there’s a problem.
…
sounds familiar doesn’t it?
Obviously you can’t lump them all into one category, but the majority of them seem to be willing to cause chaos on other instances for a laugh. Doesn’t sit right with me, so i blocked them
cause chaos for a laughspread harmful propaganda from violent dictators for moneyEveryone I disagree with is a paid propagandist
Paid propagandist, true believer, troll. I’m not sure it makes that much difference.
Whether they are paid or not we don’t know, but they are spreading propaganda so they are definitely propagandists.
Childish? Kinda. Insane? No.
There are three relevant things to say about hexbear.
1. It is not a serious instance. Or at least not completely serious; they’re mostly there for memes, funposting, “I know that feel” etc.
So they’re less like the meeting room of a communist party than like the bar where those communists hang out and drink beer, after the meeting is over.
I feel like this is often misinterpreted, as HB users say something that is mostly a taunt and others interpret as actual argumentation. And it also tends to attract younger users, who… well, behave like young people?
2. Even if not a serious instance, they’re serious about their views. Your typical HB user is communist, antifa, vegan, anti-cop, and interprets things in a very specific way. They’re rather transparent about it.
And, because of #1, they aren’t really willing to spend their time entertaining anyone’s counterpoints. It’ll be interpreted as sealioning or similar.
3. Hexbear was already its own thing before federation. As such it developed social norms that often conflict with the norms typically found in the rest of the Threadiverse (Lemmy, Mbin, Piefed etc.)
For example, even if Lemmy as a whole is prone to intrusive political discussions, HB users tend to do it far more. Because they’re used to an environment where this is typically taken as OK.
When it comes to dealing with HB users here, my advice is the exact same as dealing with other users:
- if you don’t like what someone is saying (because it’s idiotic, obstrusive, or whatever), block the person for some peace of mind.
- if you’re consistently uninterested on the content coming from an instance, block the instance.
Thank you for saying this in a more detailed way than I have been. This is exactly right. They built their own leftist haven and became a whole culture of their own, and then became federated. There is bound to be an initial clash, but honestly I think most of the people who hate on them never gave them a chance. All they saw were the shitposts and the in-jokes and you closed the door.
When it comes to dealing with HB users here, my advice is the exact same as dealing with other users
-
if you don’t like what someone is saying (because it’s idiotic, obstrusive, or whatever), block the person for some peace of mind.
-
if you’re consistently uninterested on the content coming from an instance, block the instance.
I see a lot of leftists (and leaning leftists), even on .world, who would be better off interacting with the users there (maybe blocking the shitposting comms). And outside of those most-seen comms (chapotraphouse and dunk_tank), there is genuine conversation and less shit talking and in-jokes. I believe, with more instances coming in that are federated with them (mine, .ml, and lem.ee? are a couple), some of the Hex-natives are understanding how to interact with curious left-leaning people with unintentionally wrong-headed ideas.
Downvote me all you want, I stand by Hexbear. o7
Answer me this: are they or are they not consistently in support of Russia/China? Because I’ve seen it a lot from them (and blocked the instance soon after joining Lemmy when I noticed the pattern).
Is it just some big joke that went over my head?
Support for PRC? Yes.
Support for the Russian Federation? Purely the anti-NATO role it takes, Hexbear hates Putin and the reactionary nature of the Russian Federation.
-
This is the most reasonable response.
A lot of people here have long since made up their mind about hexbear based both on repeated meta posting on the topic and possibly a bad experience or two with them on a topic they assumed was uncontested but is a landmine topic for communists of a particular bent
I’ve personally never had a bad experience with hexbears, possibly because I’m more empathetic to their perspective, but more likely because I know when it’s time to disengage. There are users on lemmy who feel strongly about a certain topic that’s abrasive to hexbear users and dig in their heels when jeered at (or maybe feel a personal responsibility to stand them down) and are usually the users here who have the most complaints, because the standard reaction from hexbear users is irreverence (both the users and the mods).
Unlike a lot of liberals coming from reddit, communists often don’t have delusions about the neutrality of moderation and so they’ll ban you on a whim if they think you’re there to stir shit. They use the ban hammer judiciously even with users on their own instance. That’s often the biggest complaint both with hexbear and with lemmy.ml.
Interestingly those points all applied to The_Donald as well.
Ah yes, famously communist, antifa, vegan, anti-cop the_donald.
antifa
Yeah, the famous antifa-tankers. Every single person I’ve ever seen that identifies as antifa was a tanker. Other people run away from that label.
I really hate that I need to point this out, because I feel like it will derail the discussion from Hexbear to fascism:
“Antifa” boils down to “people who actively oppose fascism”, instead of either supporting it or sitting on their hands while doing jack shit.
Maybe you can clear this up then:
Why does everyone there unequivocally, wholeheartedly, unquestionably support Russia?
Russia has barely a trace of communism anymore and it is hard right oligarchy that fits almost every definition of fascism. Not to mention HEAVILY racist and anti-LGBTQ (I have multiple friends who were from Russia and they were the ones who originally told me that before I saw it for myself in Russia)
Yet the “antifa” hexbear will literally down vote you to hell and ban you if you say anything even slightly bad about Russia.
Also news@hexbear is 80% articles about the war with everyone citing Russian propaganda as absolute truth and every western media, every human rights group, etc… is completely lying about the war.
An interesting juxtaposition as they are in the same way pro Palestine and cite those human rights groups as telling the absolute truth in that case
Why does everyone there unequivocally, wholeheartedly, unquestionably support Russia?
You may not like this, but the simple answer is they don’t.
Russia has barely a trace of communism anymore and it is hard right oligarchy that fits almost every definition of fascism. Not to mention HEAVILY racist and anti-LGBTQ (I have multiple friends who were from Russia and they were the ones who originally told me that before I saw it for myself in Russia)
Correct. Hexbear critically supports the role Russia plays as an anti-NATO country, and ally to the PRC, who Communists do support.
Communists in general see Western Hegemony as the international proletariat’s largest enemy, as the Global North hyper-exploits the Global South. Michael Parenti explains brilliantly in this short, 2 minute clip. Overall, Communists agree with Lenin’s analysis in Imperialism, The Highest Stage of Capitalism, and agree that it remains the number 1 enemy of the international proletariat.
NATO is the military alliance of the largest Imperialist exploiters of the Global South, and therefore weakening NATO Hegemony is a good thing. The Nationalist, far-right Russian Bourgeoisie fights against this, because they were not allowed to join the club after the fall of the USSR like they had hoped!
Hope that helps.
Then what about when they constantly refer to the rhetoric as “truth” how Ukraine was full of Nazis that were genociding the Russian minority and how Russia invaded to save them and has committed exactly 0 war crimes?
I completely get that the US is not a good guy, most of western civilization was built on exploitation, imperialism, and subjugation of people. I even understand the great things China has done as far as huge quality of life upgrades for their people.
But Russia is only similar to china in that they propagate huge anti-US propaganda and technically support each other as an anti-US coalition.
Russia is also extremely imperialist, always has been, and literally has annexed (or tried to) multiple nations in the past decades, and is currently trying to do the same. Russia is everything that hexbear stands against, yet they unequivocally support them without any doubt.
Go say literally any critical things of Russia in hexbear. You will 100% be down voted to oblivion, if not banned. If you say anything against Putin being the greatest leader in recent history, you will be down voted to hell if not banned. I have yet to see any critical speech of Russia on hexbear that didn’t get removed or down voted so hard that the comment will never see the light of day.
I understand being Anti-US, but if Russia was in the US’s position, they would be just as bad if not worse for the treatment of people and propagating imperialism.
Is there something in the name requiring people to support fascism if it wears the right color?
Is there something in the name requiring people to support fascism if it wears the right color?
Do some people fighting fascism (aka antifa) go overboard? Yes, certainly; that’s bound to happen with any movement, group, or cohort.
For example, someone might miss the target due to witch hunting, or adopt an “ends always justify means” mindset, or even conflate “non-suporter = enemy”.
However. By implying that “antifa is fascism wearing a different colour”, like you are doing, you’re showing to not understand the obvious difference between
- individuals following an ideology grounded on xenophobia, nationalism, racism, militarism, censorship, suppression of your individuality by force, more often than not sexism, homophobia and transphobia; and
- individuals who don’t want the shit above to transform their lives into living hells, including some willing to use force to fight back.
This conflation between both groups is not just immoral. It’s worse - it stinks stupidity and similar filth from a distance. As such I’m not wasting my time further with you, go chew some grass.
But if you’re anti fascism but pro authoritarianism, you’re still wrong…
Plenty HB users are authoritarian. I disagree with them in this; however I don’t think that both things cancel out, given the fascism is orders of magnitude worse than authoritarianism alone.
Aaaand you’re low-key defending authoritarianism…
Yeah, because saying “cat shit is not as huge as elephant shit” is the same as saying “cat shit is not shit”. /s
This guy knows nothing of the political spectrum.
This guy knows nothing of the political spectrum.
Liberalism in the center? Gosh, this is the most American political coordinates there could be
It’s almost physically triggering how off-base that is
I highly recommend you give Blackshirts and Reds: Rational Fascism and the Overthrow of Communism and On Authority a read. At least On Authority, as it’s a very short piece, but the two combined should give you a basic understanding of the historical and theoretical basis of why marxists defend the use of authority. I can understand where you are coming from, I was more than a little skeptical of authoritarianism when I was younger and still identified as an anarchist, but I think if you take the time to honestly engage with our position then you will at least understand why our stance is what it is, and how we are diametrically opposed to fascism, even if you don’t agree with us.
Blackshirts and Reds was eye opening for me
Lmao, they sure are insane. But if you listen closely they will tell you that sanity is a western psyop and you should enjoy the simple truths of life, like shitting in your own pants and bragging about it online.
I got IBS so I guess I already have an advantage in that regard
Just like they claimed NATO had biolabs on the Ukraine / Russian border: it’s all a conspiracy to destroy poor mother Russia!
You are correct. Do your mental health a favour and block that instance along with lemmygrad.
Problem is that blocking the instance doesn’t block these clowns’ comments on other instances, you have to do a lot of manual blocking.
Most of the Lemmy.World users and mods are actively advocating to vote for Genocide, so i understand that Hexbear is a culture shock.
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That vote was made in the Obama era. There’s a 35 billion dollar funding scheme for Israel that’s bin full swing.
Stopping it would require a lot of changes across multiple stratas of government and legal procedures.
… it’s not as simple as “the president” or “the party” can just stop a long term international set of contracts across industries and government agencies and departments.
The video “Rules for Rulers” by YouTuber CPGGrey covers some of this.
Damn it’s nice to see the comments are surprisingly even split between hating on it and actually being reasonable. Quite a difference from when redditors first moved in here last year.
I guess the more people talk about it, the more people actually visit it for themselves and form their own opinions.
Every single person I’ve seen defending it has been a lemmy.ml user which from my understanding is not too dissimilar from hexbears
Lemmy.ml is run by Communists and has a lot of Communists in general (ml itself is a reference to Marxism-Leninism), Communists are going to be sympathetic towards Communists.
1·6 months agoI couldn’t let it go.
Nutomic: I always thought that .ml was used simply because its free. But what do I know…
Wow, really? That’s quite the coincidence then.
I guess the more people talk about it, the more people actually visit it for themselves and form their own opinions.
That’s the biggest kicker, since many instances are defederated they get secondhand filters of information, creating an image of Hexbear that just doesn’t align with reality. Anyone considering themselves a Leftist should at least check it out for themselves.
Nah, it is just a lot of hexbear alt accounts like yourself on your disingenously labeled “reasonable” side.
Everyone I disagree with is a secret hexbear
Cope lol
Not all. People over-generalize to forget that Lemmy.ml (and lately more people from Midwest.social) have always blended the experiences, being able to post to both “sides” like hexbear.net and lemmy.world that are defederated from one another.
And lemm.ee too though iirc they consider themselves more truly neutral than leftists?
And some alts too ofc:-).
I’m a lefty but I didn’t know which instances leaned which way when I got here. I chose lemm.ee because their defed policy itself was neutral and that appealed to me because I can do my own damn blocking thank you.
You can now… and if you were willing to go individually account-by-account, then you always could. I’m glad you found your niche - it’s nice to widen your worldview and listen to it all, sometimes:-).
Though I’m on the other end of the spectrum: having spent nearly a decade listening to people’s oddball takes on everything under the sun, and bending over backwards to accommodate it all as if it had some semblance of validity, I now find myself wanting to substantially narrow my input stream. Ngl, reading and watching/listening to - and more importantly thinking deeply about - such things as Innuendo Studios’ The Alt Right Playbook, and the actual Trump presidency that caused our current inflation crisis and oh yeah killed more people than all wars combined iirc, really changed my approach on giving such viewpoints the time of day. There’s a difference between sounding smart (like screetching: “show me your source material, bitch!”, while also looking down on the recipient in every way), vs. actually being thus, imho.
However, if you want to keep your finger on the pulse of many sides regarding a particular matter, then I’m so glad that the federated servers allow us each to experience such a diversity of goals, even on the same platform! 😄
idk, I’ve seen all the hype around hexbear users being obnoxious around Lemmy (including our own instance debating blocking the instance, followed by several of their members brigading the thread true to form)… but I’ve explored the communities on the instance itself and even subscribed to some of them like mutual aid, gaming etc, and those that I’m watching are actually just normal people doing normal things if more left than some other similar groups. In my experience it isn’t “all” hexbear users, because that would be a dumb generalization.
There are some assholes on that instance to be sure. Show me one that this isn’t true of. I’m glad our instance didn’t block them because I now get to decide for myself. I block communities and/or users if they’re a problem for me. I think that’s a good way.
I’m glad your instance stayed federated because I’ve seen some good takes from lemm.ee users on hexbear threads! 🥰
Yeah I joined this instance not knowing much about any of them and lucked into a very good crew! I did read their defederation policy (not inclined to unless extreme situations) and that is why I signed up here and they’ve been true to that. I think it’s healthy.
The brigading was really annoying though, but I never noticed anything else bad about them. I don’t use ‘all’ very much and that is probably why.
They really don’t “brigade” much except in threads on which HB is mentioned.
However they will pile on in threads that grab their attention, but I think that’s more a result of them being a fairly large instance and their (mostly like-minded) users all finding popular threads organically in their feed.
Hexbear isn’t actually very large. Just very active.
Do you have any examples of this? Since world is defederated from that instance, I only end up visiting it when people like you come in and talk about how absolutely crazy it is over there, so occasionally I’ll take a curious peek. This time I see… a post about Indigenous rights, a post criticizing capitalism, a post dunking on musk, a post about FOSS… when do I start seeing the crazy?
If you’re a rabid right winger like most redditors anyone with half a brain will seem crazy.
Read the comments.
I did, and still didn’t see the crazy. In fact, all it did was make me wonder why an instance with such little activity gets talked about so much.
I don’t because I blocked the instance. I’d recommend if you’re curious, just take a look at it. I’m probably being more dramatic than necessary, and I know there are some good instances there. Just be careful
They very quickly ban people who disagree with their propaganda. So just browsing, it looks like left leaning but generally sane people.
Go on there and say anything negative at all about China. You’ll see the crazy.
Have you considered you are just observing this:
Hexbear is for communists to talk to communists. They get plenty of the “default” liberal opinions from waves hands around vaguely and are entitled to their own community, no?.
Obviously if you go into Hexbear and just start posting anti-China stuff they’re going to ban you. It’s not like the English-speaking world is bereft of anti-China news articles.
This isn’t accurate, they were very active in brigandine other federations, hitting random threads on .world for instance with hundreds of reply comments drowning out anything that may be a tiny bit critical of china or Russia. Or pro west.
There wereultiple cross-posts daily pointing to specific threads posted on hexbear to organize brigading.
hitting random threads on .world
Dang that’s pretty impressive for an instance that got blocked by .world before they ever started federating.
Or did I already miss make stuff up o’clock?
hitting random threads on .world for instance with hundreds of reply comments
.world preemptively defederated from hexbear “as a last resort” can you clarify when the events you’re referring to would have happened?
I’m not trying to join their cult. I’m not feeling excluded from their cult. I’m saying their cult should not exist. It is a mixture of crazy people and Chinese propaganda, and it deserves to be stamped out.
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Ah yea, everyone that has an opinion that isn’t mine is dangerous and deserves to be silenced. I totally agree. I think lemmy.world should refederate, and then defederate a second time, just to make sure they get the message.
Not everyone who disagrees with me. Just extremists and morons. Tankies happen to be both.
REAL communists are cool. Hexbear is a pile of shit.
Are the real communists kept around back with the real scotsmen?
Real communists keep quiet around hexbear because they don’t associate with those idiots.
What do you consider a real Communist, if not people who read Communist Theory, advocate for Communism, and defend real movements towards Communism?
Not tankies.
How authoritarian
I might not agree with the moderation practices or even their opinions, but that doesn’t make them crazy.
You got cause and effect mixed up.
We disagree with them because they are crazy.
do you have an argument that doesn’t rely on ableism?
Yeah. Here it goes:
“ableism” is used as cover for shills to attempt to shut down people who call out their batshit insanity.
Oops
got it. for anyone else reading this: why exactly is jumping straight to mental illness as the source of any disagreement not ableist? Does someone who struggles with mental health get no say on literally any topic?
Blah blah fuck tankies. Fuck Putin. Fuck the CCP. Fuck hexbear.
lemmy.world users don’t interact with hexbeqr users because your admin preemptively defederated from hexbear “as a last resort”. At no point were the two federated. I don’t know about crazy, but that seems inconsistent. Don’t you agree?
Found the hexbear with a .ml alt rofl
That’s how we interact with hexbears. Via .ml
Not really. They have a lot of bits and in-jokes which are going to seem incomprehensible to anyone from the outside, but most of them are pretty chill if you engage in good faith. It’s like a lot of tech communities; if you don’t do your research and ask intelligent questions, you’re likely to get told to RTFM.
Yeah it’s just like that… except that they advocate for the murder and starvation of countless people as a step in a process towards a utopia that cannot exist.
But yeah just a bunch of fun people with inside jokes
Your last comment is literally eco-fascist shit and you’re concern trolling about starvation?
Every accusation is a confession, it seems
name every genocide without bias.
I don’t understand… I was describing the reality of climate change. Does that make you uncomfortable?
Yeah, I think humans deserve the consequences of our actions with respect to climate change. And…?
Was I advocating for it? Do you maybe not know what that word means?
How does it feel to be the person who takes screenshots of other people’s comments on an Internet forum because you think it’s some kind of “gotcha”?
I have not seen anyone there advocating for capitalism though?
“HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point”
Without taking any sides, saying some group is insane and then saying that them lashing back “proves your point” is beyond stupid.
Like, of course they will, what else do you expect them to do? Sit and politely agree?
We should stop with this kind of BS in any sort of debate. Groups will protect themselves, and will not get polite to those who throw slurs at them; that’s natural, normal and speaks nothing about their average behavior.
This never proves any point and is nothing but a dirty rhetorical device aimed to shut your opposition up and make them seem irrelevant. This is not part of any possible healthy conversation.
Hexbear is sort of like a village of eldritch abomination worshippers in a Lovecraftian horror story - isolated, insular, entirely wrapped up in their own esoteric rituals and ideas and language, and immediately and collectively hostile to outsiders.
It’s not just you
And increasingly lemmy.ml, sadly
They’re getting there, but so far it’s only a few users that I’ve noticed.
One guy seems to be following me around to attempt mockery.
They’re very much getting to “everyone who isn’t farther left than me is a right-wing nazi” mentality.
They aren’t even really left. They are super authoritarian.
I blocked them since they spew Russian and Chinese propaganda points and take revisionist stances on Tianman square and deny the Uyghur Genocide.
The term “authoritarian” is so fraught that under these circumstances it might as well just mean “opponent of the United States” or “organized at all”.
The examples you have provided are quite absurd.
Tiananmen Square (which you misspelled) is indeed poorly understood in The West, including the historical conensus that there was no massacre in the square itself. It is, in fact, historical revisionism to suggest otherwise. In addition, Tiananmen Square is just a place, a very popular one to visit that has been the location for all kinda of events. In China, the events are called the June 4 Incident / events. Calling it “Tiananmen Square” is sometimes a sign that a person is not familiar with the history as they are using the common but misleading term that is virtually only used to forward the previously-mentioned historical revisionism to a Western audience that is in no way interested in understanding.
Re: Uyghurs, I would suggest that you read into this much more, as the topic is full of misinformation, think tanks with shady ties, fake universities, charlatans pretending to be experts, literal teenagers treated as satellite photography analysis experts, and really weird NGOs, including pro-Trump ones. One good topic to focus on is calling it a genocide at all and how that came to be the discourse. In particular, what The Newlines Institute is, why they were amplified by the US State Departmwnt, their rationale, and, of course, why none of that is taken seriously outside of a very specific political block. Following their members, funding, etc is actually a pretty interesting rabbit trail to follow. Bird’s eye view, the rhetorical treatment of Uyghurs as the subject of genocide was more or less invented, and this is is why you naturally don’t see math death, destruction, refugees, or forced migrations of the Uyghur population. This does not mean bad things haven’t happened there nor that policies were not hamfisted, but just compare how China treated a series of sectarian knife attacks (education, jobs, vocational training, investment, banning extremist Salafist practices) to how the West treated and treats Muslims (invading and killing millions).
So, anyways, I hope that you can continue your education and engage with these realities in gold faith.
Thanks for posting your thoughts, I don’t get many opportunities to hear tankie brainrot as it’s often purged from my feed before I even open the comments.
#1 whatever did or did not happen at the specific location of Tiananmen Square doesn’t address that the Chinese government murdered student protestors. Doesn’t matter if it was two blocks over or on the other side of the country. The CCP will use lethal force against protestors.
#2 a think tank has nothing to do with all the Uyghurs whose family members have disappeared without a trace. The CCP makes people disappear and they offer zero transparency into their judicial process.
You’re quibbling over minor specifics and ignoring the undisputed parts that are most damning. Stop being a propagandist for a government that doesn’t even align with your proported beliefs just because ”america bad".
Thanks for posting your thoughts, I don’t get many opportunities to hear tankie brainrot as it’s often purged from my feed before I even open the comments.
I can see already how much of a good faith engagement this will be. Would you be surprised if people reacted negatively to your introduction?
#1 whatever did or did not happen at the specific location of Tiananmen Square doesn’t address that the Chinese government murdered student protestors.
What I was doing was pointing out that the most common understanding is an absurdity and historically revisionist. There is plenty more that could be discussed if one wanted to, but the common understanding is a cartoonish falsehood based on memes and not any actual attempt to read and understand. The way that parent made their reference indicated that they shared this false understanding.
Doesn’t matter if it was two blocks over or on the other side of the country. The CCP will use lethal force against protestors.
What matters re: the point I made is that there is a conflict with the common mental image and suggests that perhaps a person should recognize when they do not really know something. It might even jostle a person to not reach for the next-worst type of sourcing and instead do a deep-dive that challenges themselves. Wouldn’t want to get caught out like that again, right?
#2 a think tank has nothing to do with all the Uyghurs whose family members have disappeared without a trace.
This is the same illogical structue of the previous response. It sounds like what you would really like to say is that there is something related that you think is important so you would like to skip over what I said. Feel free to make another thread with these other points and I can respond to them there.
You’re quibbling over minor specifics and ignoring the undisputed parts that are most damning.
Ad I said, the entire narrative shift is based on an absurd propaganda apparatus and not any evidence on the ground. The use of the big G word.
The fact that OP is repeating this again suggests a lack of investigation. And yet they are so dismissive! I would hope that they might become interested in doing some media criticism. Maybe ask a question. Sometimes people do this and only tell you until much later.
Stop being a propagandist for a government that doesn’t even align with your proported beliefs just because ”america bad".
Now you are just making things up.
All I want to hear from you is an admission that the CCP murdered protestors, and that they jail people without giving families or the international press any contact.
Found one guys!
Tianmen square test: Failed
Uyghur test: Failed
I love this litmus test so much lol.
What did I say that was inaccurate?
Lol your copy pasted “answer” sounded like Donald Trump tried to wriggle out of a tough question.
You showed that you don’t accept the Tianmen square massacre, nor the Uyghur massacre. What’s next, denying the holocaust?
what about märtsiküüditamine? and im not translating for a tankie, kuradi hull!
They didn’t mention it so why would I address it? You don’t seem particularly ready to have a good faith discussion, either.
oh noes the tankie is scwared thwat his narwatiwe of genocide deniwal is being exposed as stupid. now get blocked as i have to gamble gold in roblox flying skibidi toilet tycoon
On behalf of my Uyghur friends who haven’t spoken to their parents in years, because they were imprisoned for their children emigrating: fuck you. A really deep, heartfelt fuck you.
Please engage with what I said rather than leveling personal attacks.
Please, tell us more about your Uyghur friends and their imprisoned parents.
What’s it like to completely make stuff up and post it online pseudonymously?
I don’t know, you tell me.
lemmy.blahaj.zone? Really?
I mean the other two are authorian apologist idiot instances but blahaj?
Something about it rubbed me the wrong way
I wonder what that something is?
What does that mean
deleted by creator
You can have a non-US centric point of view without defending Russia or Chinese genocides…
If you’re saying I’m calling their viewpoints crazy, I’m not. I didn’t get a view point besides I’m pig slop, a piece of shit, brainwashed by the empire (whatever the hell that means), stupid, a basement dweller, and today, I think they called me a pervert
again youre misrepresenting. you got several well articulated lengthy explanations and dismissed them or didn’t reply.
This is my exact same experience. I ask for someone to elaborate on their stance, get told (not accused, told) I’m trolling. Ask for explanation/definition of a concept, get called an idiot shitlib and told to read some theory. Ask for civility, get told I deserve abuse for “endorsing genocide”. (By the way, I absolutely oppose the genocide in Gaza. But I’m a genocide supporter I guess because I won’t flush my vote third party this November.)
Hexbear is a community that expects you to conform. Every time there is a post like this, someone comes out of the woodwork and says “They’re nice people if you talk like them and agree with them on everything.” It’s cool that you’re not getting abused, but abuse is coming from that space, whether or not it is happening to you.
It’s a shame because I would like to hear the nuances of their viewpoints, but I can never get them to tell me what they are. Always complaining that nobody tries to understand, but dogpiling on anyone that asks questions. Then they pull up your report history and tell you “It’s just a little dunking bro, stop being a snowflake” for not putting up with it.
Users of Hexbear, if you’re reading these words, do better. Nobody is going to sympathize with your cause if you antagonize outsiders that want to learn more.
I’m a grad user not a hexbear user but views are pretty much the same, I’ll say here: it matters a ton in the thread and way in which you tried to do this. if you give the slightest hint that you’re asking questions in bad faith, they’re going to pounce on you, because communists online constantly have to deal with bad faith trolls. There are an extremely small number of communists in the west, we are outnumbered basically everywhere online and in real life, so we are naturally protective of the very few places where we hold the majority opinion.
I’m not gonna go looking for your interactions with hexbear to actually see but I’ll answer any questions you have right now. also, you haven’t been banned or had any action taken against you by hexbear mods at all. you could always pose respectful questions in one of their general mega threads, or in ask chapo
I’ll read through those threads sometime. I don’t think I’ll be commenting in that instance though. Maybe I’ll look around for a community that clicks better to interact with. I don’t really have questions off the top of my head, sorry. I don’t know what I don’t know.
Your mistake was posting in the dunk tank. That is literally a “vent” sub where they vent their frustrations against stupid US empire propaganda takes.
It’s the dunk tank.
This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.
If you go there expecting reasonable treatment for your opinions, you misunderstood the assignment. That is a shitpost sub where only one side is right.
How do I know this? Because I went there once and got dunked on too! But that does not represent the entirety of hexbear. I think.
Then I think I made the same mistake that you did. However I took a shot and dunked on them, and they went insane. Like water in a fryer
