LovesAGoodPigRoast [none/use name]

I just responded!

“The patriarchy only exists because men ask women nicely to submit to it” - rad libs

Why would you assume I’m here to not learn?

Unless these people who suffer under capitalism the most are a politcal monolith, I’m unsure they’ll even agree with you what you’re saying. Are all women in the proletariat? Why is it nearly half vote against their own interests in America? Are all racial minorities in agreement that they are the ones suffering under capitalism the most? Do they even see themselves as racial minorities (white latinos)? I’m not disagreeing that Marxism has had Feminist elements to it. I think you’re over generalizing entire populations to the point you think they share similar values as you, soley based on their race, sex, gender, etc.

Why was my comment removed?

I never became a leftist to solve the Feminist, gender, or race questions for my society. I became a leftist to take back the ownership of labor from capitalists for all workers. I see no reason to push leftism specifically from a Feminist perspective, unless it leads to a violent capture of capital. And historically, this isn’t the demographic that leverages violence well. Not that these efforts shouldn’t be made, I just personally won’t spend time on it.

Yeah it’s an old 4chan/incel naming convention. It needs to go.

What’s a NAFOid?

Looking around and seeing no matter how many political concessions we get, nothing is getting better economically for the working class.

100 percent man. Thanks for the conversation. I have a much better outlook of this site. Probably not the best choice to jump into for my first thread lol.

You’re describing patsocs in the 20th century not class reductionist, so I don’t believe those historical examples mean those beliefs have the same outcome. If they were solely basing policy on class, black workers would have been admitted solely on the merits of being working class. I think that’s where we disagree.

I would say any historical context of exclusion based on race is the exact opposite of a class reductionist because they reduced their beliefs upon a racial identity first. Unless I’m unaware of the party in your example explicitly stating they were class reductionist, I don’t believe those to be same thing. The only reason why, even as a black person, I have this line of thinking is because I’ve seen how effective these so called “concessions” have been to my community. They haven’t. Being politically emancipated within this bourgeois, capitalist electorate hasn’t done much more than made us feel betrayed, and angry. And I believe race, sex, gender, etc are such weak positions to argue leftism from. I know more and more black people (mostly men) supporting right wing ideology and something close to 40 percent of women (albeit within in the American context) vote for the further right wing party. That is what I hope people understand. Being apart of a marginalized group doesn’t mean you’re naturally apart of a centralized group, with any sort of political consensus. This is not the same thing as saying “the black situation is unimportant or doesnt need to talked about”, it’s saying “not all black people are or ever will be leftists/comrades so stop addressing the issue as if we are all political monolith”.

I mean I’ve learned a lot already and everyone here is so nice it was hard to believe. Thanks for all of information.

So why do people equate patsoc with class reduction? Tell me if I’m wrong, but it sounds like patsocs are using socialist ideology/esthetic to rally around some sort of nationality/ethnicity/race, wouldn’t a class reductionist be the opposite of that?

Imma keep it real with it you man, the vibe I get from some people here is that none of us should be set free unless we’re all in the house first. I know that’s not the best way of saying it or even if it’s true. If this comment is out of bounds go ahead and remove it, but I hope to stick around and learn.

So I looked this up and from what I saw, they label the CCP this. Is that just western propaganda or is that kinda true?

Thanks for that. I’ll look into what a patsoc is. Are they bad for just being assholes or is it more of an ideological issue?

Oh… I’m sorry too. I think this is my fault for not articulating myself well, so please don’t apologize. After re-reading what I typed, it was more confrontational than I intended. Maybe I’m too used to reddit (I’m told you guys call it storefront. That’s awesome and so well deserved) so I haven’t gotten used to these good faith conversations. Sorry again .

I’m not saying I did. It’s an opinion that black people have nonetheless. Many people I know care about the economic/modern day enslavement conditions much more than the political empowerment in a capitalistic society. As you are seeing, a black identity doesn’t mean a monolithic one and I’m saying an identity like ours may not create as strong solidarity as you think. Don’t forget, you don’t speak for the rest of us either.

Yes, did you not read the rest? I’d rather a white socialist than a lip service white lib lol. Was this a gotcha? I’ll just stick to my irl black armed self defense group (that also has white people in it) because this place is just too weird. I was recommended it as an alternative to reddit but it doesn’t seem much different.

Wtf you can get comments removed for being “too class reductionist” as a racial minority on this site? I guess my opinion as a black person that wants workers solidarity and because im not a black nationalists doesn’t fit with the narratives of the mods here. Lame site. I’m out.