I’ve been trying to find a good Marxist instance, but Lemmygrad and Hexbear are widely hated. Why is that? Are there any good leftist instances?
They are hardline Marxist-Leninists, something that is very rare in the western world even amongst those who identify as leftist or socialist. If their views make you uncomfortable, then you’re not a ML, which is okay.
Left-wing politics is a very broad spectrum, and a lot of Lemmy users lean towards the more moderate end which brings them into conflict with the more radical communities that are Lemmygrad and Hexbear.
That’s all there is to it.
I would also add that there are a lot of them on Lemmy, which is even more uncommon.
And they’re not artificially suppressed like they are on other social media platforms.
Haven’t seen any lemmygrad users in a while, but honestly the vitriol towards Hexbear is overblown. They’re fine. Bit trolly, and they shitpost a lot, but it’s kinda fun.
I can’t speak about lemmygrad since the instances I’m on all defederate from it, but Hexbear users have a reputation for being generally aggressive, grating, and immature. It’s like that kid in class who keeps interrupting the teacher because they think they’re funny and clever. e.g., some were screaming at me that I can’t be an anarchist and I know nothing about anarchism since I’m married, replying with third-grade tier memes for some confusing reason
some were screaming at me that I can’t be an anarchist and I know nothing about anarchism since I’m married, replying with third-grade tier memes for some confusing reason
Sounds like Hexbear to me
Exactly this. They are not leftist, they are just a bunch of idiot trolls who use extreme left views as a means of pissing people off. Their views, according to their posts, are cartoonishly extremist. And that’s why people don’t like them.
I fully agree. The problem is when we point out that they’re not leftist, they assume it’s because we conflate leftism with liberalism, whereas this is not the case at all. I think they’re not leftist because their antisocial/anti-human beliefs are antithetical to the concept of community and only serve to derail any chance we have to work together to create a new system. I can’t imagine that anyone who legitimately seeks the goal of a stateless, classless society would behave as they do.
Because they are populated by some of the dumbest people on the planet.
Lemmygrad and Hexbear are cool. IDK why you wouldn’t like them if you’re a leftist.
Hexbear in particular has been annoying in the past with nonsense comments from users there, and so many unhelpful replies that are just a tiny animated image and nothing else. I’m not even sure they actually are leftist as much as just trolls a lot of times, so I’ve blocked the instance in general so that serious leftist conversations aren’t being drowned out by that nonsense.
If it looks like someone from hexbear (such as yourself here) is making a real contribution then I’ll reveal that comment and engage. It’s a shame there are so many goofballs on that instance, apparently. Maybe their moderation has improved though?
Valid criticisms tbh (I even could say the same as a day 0 account lol)
Moderation isn’t going to “improve” because they generally are fine with everyone being goofballs, so I wouldn’t expect that.
Some people have the cascade of shitposting and useless emojis coming with their crappy views, but I don’t think our instance is great at propaganda or ROE, which is unfortunate. Would love to see what we could do with a little discipline.
Also the emojis on every other instance and all mobile apps look more obnoxious because they don’t downscale to their intended resolution.
so many unhelpful replies that are just a tiny animated image and nothing else
Here on kbin I don’t even see that, just text links with names like “pig poop balls”.
I’m the only person I’ve ever seen on Lemmy running an instance from a nominally communist country (maybe there are others?). You can come hang out with me I guess. I’m not qualified to be a proper communist though – I’ve read very little of the literature, and leave politics to the Party. Which I am not even actually a member of. I’m basically Boxer from Animal farm, but ended up happily married and with a decent standard of living instead of shipped off to the glue factory.
I’m am a mercenary science hermit though, so my instance is very quiet! There are three people on my instance, two are me and the other is a bot I wrote doing I-Ching divinations using physics.
I am interested in the physics divination bot. How’s it work?
There’s a detailed description on my home instance, along with other stuff.
The short version is it uses a pair of BJT transistors to produce and amplify diode breakdown noise. That’s amplified to TTL levels by some hex inverters. Then an 8-bit microcontroller passes it through a Von Neumann whitewashing algorithm (clock-cycle balanced in assembly language) to produce unbiased bits, which it accumulates into bytes. It’s not a ‘safe’ way to use transistors and they will fail one day, but it will be fine for quite some time still.
Then an ESP32 samples the bytes from the 8-bit MCU. It connects to Wi-Fi and pushes it to the cloud over MQTT. A server listens for the random bytes, and uses them with the traditional I-Ching algorithm (yarrow-stick probabilities). Coding the yarrow-stick probabilities into an algorithm was a pain compared to the newer method that uses coin tosses :D
Also I had to convert the I-Ching to JSON, so I could programmatically pull the correct divination from it. The whole thing is gloriously absurd.
I have build a few particle detectors so I can use quantum-tunneling to produce the entropy instead (so an upgrade from a hardware RNG to a quantum RNG), but the radiation sources I have access to are a bit too weak to generate sufficient entropy.
I can’t imagine any of this has any practical application, unless you happen to be a time traveler. In that case have work to do, meet me last week and we’ll talk about it :P
Oh incidentally if the bot is down, let me know and I’ll gently beat it into submission so it works again.
Impressive, but not cost-effective. I would just
fetch("random.org") XOR Math.random().I have to do cost-effective all week. Weekends, I get to do “ridiculous” :)
Understandable.
BTW, I’m a bit surprise when I find out you were actually a foreigner migrated to Vietnam, which is a developing country. I was always under the impression that talents usually rather migrate to a more developed economy, not only for higher life quality, but also more advanced technologies. What made you decide to open a tech company in Vietnam instead of anywhere else?
Growth potential. Relatively clear laws on immigration and foreign business. The language doesn’t leave me functionally illiterate (it uses Latin-ish characters). The lack of other immigrants, and general brain drain to Western economies gave me a competitive advantage. Maybe a standard rule of business is “don’t do what everyone else is doing”.
It was clear a lot of growth was about to happen, and anyone who could reach out and grab a bit of it would do well. Also: why sell tech where tech is common and everyone has it already?
Of course that was good on paper, but the first three years were a disaster. Tried working for a foreign company as an employee, got cheated badly, lost most of my assets, didn’t know what to do. The five year plan just came out about then, figured I’d RTFM. It encouraged me to start a tech company, and I am good at tech, so I put every dime in.
Next three years were a disaster too, lost everything. I got wiser though, and things improved after that. The rest is just reliably grinding out work for clients.
I find the quality of life here quite good overall. I used to cough blood in winter. None of that nonsense anymore! Health care is OK. Food and weather are nice, and my neighbors are decent. It’s very safe, by far the safest place I’ve ever lived. Interactions with government have been efficient and cordial. Air pollution and traffic are becoming a bit of a problem, but can’t have everything I guess.
Tools from China and reasonably priced local factories mean I have more access to advanced technology than I had in the West. By a lot! I can now access the means of production, and it’s pretty amazing!
Tried working for a foreign company as an employee, got cheated badly, lost most of my assets, didn’t know what to do.
Did they only pay you in “equity” instead of wages?
Also, how was your interaction with the government? Did you have to “lubricate” with your money to make things go faster?
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Lemmygrad and Hexbear aren’t “leftist” in the confused sense that Americans usually mean “leftist.” They’re actually leftist in the original sense, meaning that they want to abolish private ownership of the means of production. To the extent they’re “widely hated,” it’s largely because the Anglosphere has been indoctrinated against real, actual socialism their entire lives.
More often than not, when Americans say leftist they really mean left-liberalism a la Bernie Sanders, which is really center-left at most, and not actually leftist in the original sense, a sense which Americans have forgotten thanks to two Red Scares and the first Cold War.
Any politically focused space on the Internet, left or right, is a cesspool of toxic lies and hatred of anyone outside their sphere
That’s not the part people have an issue with, the part where their users deny genocides, call everyone that has a less extreme left opinion of politics Nazis, end up being so “anti-racism” that they’re racists themselves and take all critics as personal attacks, that’s what people have an issue with.
Wild how much footage is coming out of Gaza right now showing an actual ongoing genocide, yet Zionists and their water-carriers will harp on and on about how Israel is merely defending itself.
Nothing of the sort from Xinjiang. At all.
I’d like to see ONE verifiable image or video depicting this supposed Uyghur genocide we’re denying. ONE. Apparently it’s one of the worst human atrocities occuring right now. One of the worst in HISTORY.
So… show me a single picture. Fetish porn doesn’t count. Where are the dead bodies? Where are these supposed mass graves?
Love to break it to ya, they don’t fucking exist and they never did. You’ve been lied to.
their users deny genocides
If you are referring to the Xinjiang issue, then it just reaffirms what @davel@lemmy.ml just said:
it’s largely because the Anglosphere has been indoctrinated against real, actual socialism their entire lives
Because the “Uyghur genocide” in Xinjiang is another example of propaganda. Or do you really think the West cares about Muslims and want to protect their “freedom”?
call everyone that has a less extreme left opinion of politics Nazis
I don’t see anyone in Lemmygrad calling other people “Nazis” because they disagree with someone in a discussion. I usually see them criticizing others as “liberals.” This is either a misrepresentation of leftists in general, very common among conservatives, or you are frequently being called a Nazi. I don’t know, maybe that’s on you? 🤔
end up being so “anti-racism” that they’re racists themselves and take all critics as personal attacks
That’s so specific you should give at least one example of this. We have very strict moderation against any bigotry, so I challenge you to link any “racist” attitude or comment you have seen in Lemmygrad. I will give you 24 hours, and if you don’t reply with an example, I will edit this comment saying you chickened out.
EDIT: They chickened out, as expected.
And 24 hours have passed with no evidence! No sources! No citations! Typical unsubstantiated settler horseshit.
Another repeating problem is the vast generalizations. Treating “the West” as if they’re all Bush Jr. or Reagan.
If “the west” isn’t voting for Bush or Reagan then they’re hailing people like Obama, who destroyed Libya and brought back open air slave markets - or Clinton who destroyed Belgrade and undermined social protections for workers. To think you are somehow better because you support(ed?) Genocide Joe is just delusion.
What’s your view on Trump?
Just as bad as Biden, Obama, Bush Jr., and both Clintons; deserving of the same International Criminal Court convictions as the five I just listed.
Critical support to Donald Trump in his mission to undermine the amerikkkan state, bless him for not hiring people to the state department and congratulations for his negotiation of capitulation to the Taliban
Ok, Stalin
I’m not even American yet still in “the west”, and refuse to be identified by American subpar ways of determining people in power.
Americrackers and their vassals
being in the west may as well mean you’re american, they tell you what to do, try saying no.
Political views aside, the way they promote their political views is unappealing.
Look through any of their popular threads. Everyone piles on any comment which doesn’t align perfectly with the agreed perspective.
That’s basically every political sub I’ve come across browsing in my instance
Everyone piles on any comment which doesn’t align perfectly with the agreed perspective.
Sounds like every popular community on Lemmy. The only difference is the “agreed perspective”.
Not really.
In most communities you can at least entice some robust discussion, hexbear just seems sp aggressively intolerant of alternative views.
alternative views like ‘being racist’ and ‘advocating for genocide’
Im not in alot of communities but I’ve never seen the heavy handed claims everyone makes about seemingly any lemmy user to the left of Biden. I’ve seen occasional snark, but nothing out of line for standard internet snark/trolling that those same people never mind when the right does it. 🤷
I believe you’ve answered your own question.
Lemmy isn’t Marxist-only. The majority of Lemmy users are what the more vocal Lemmygrad and Hexbear users deride as “libs.” As a thought experiment, imagine that you are one of us for a moment and then browse Local on one of those.
Thought experiment; Don’t be a lib.
I could tell you, but the last time I responded to a thread like this I got banned for a couple weeks because toxic political personalities aren’t very tolerant.
So, as others mentioned, they’re tankies. They circle jerk about how “the west” is entirely responsible for every bad thing that ever happened. They blame the Russian invasion of Ukraine on the West, they deny the oppression of the Uyghur people as pure western propaganda…
Any time you cite something horrible Russia or Iran or China or North Korea does, they say “the west is just as bad,” draw some false equivalencies, and then proceed to explain why that means that the West is the only bad thing and there’s nothing at all wrong with Russia or China.
And… they’re so aggressive about it. It’s not just that their opinions are so detestable, but that they brigade other threads and insist that everybody who isn’t actively bombing US government buildings is evil.
They’re annoying. On the fediverse, that might be the highest sin.
God yeah. Even if they had some interesting ideas they’ve been lost to all the circle jerking that there’s no way of seeing how any of them can be taken seriously.
Lemmygrad is filled with the American patriot version of communists. You will excuses for the Uighur genocide and acts of repression against ethnic minorities for the good of the nation as a whole. You also get into weird cases of trying to redefine words because the words don’t match their narrative. For instance, I was in one discussion trying to argue that China was a democracy because the government worked for the people, even if there was never any official method of communicating the public will.
Hexbear seems more geared towards being angry and bitter at liberals for not doing what they see as the right thing. There isn’t any discussion on political theory, talk of political organization outside of violent revolution is frowned on, and the focus seems geared on one small part of the political spectrum while ignoring other parts entirely.
If anything, solarpunk may be the healthier leftist sub because it is geared in part towards solutions instead of focusing on problems.
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even if there was never any official method of communicating the public will.
What do you mean by this? What kinds of methods do you find acceptable?
There isn’t any discussion on political theory
There is absolutely talk of political theory on hexbear. Right now currently there’s a bell hooks reading group pinned to our front page. I’ve learned a surprising amount from my fellow hexbear nerds. People drop reading recommendations constantly and if you make a thread with questions from something you’re reading, you’ll get engagement and answers. It’s pretty cool.
the focus seems geared on one small part of the political spectrum while ignoring other parts entirely.
Yes, we’re communists. We aren’t going to pretend liberals are worth engaging with politically. That being said, we are a leftist unity instance, so anarchists, MLs, maoists, what have you are all welcome. As long as you’re an actual leftist and not some “just vooooote” liberal, you’ll probably enjoy hexbear.
Leftist unity, but only for the authoritarian left. Hexbears either intentionally ignore or are not aware of the academic case for democratic socialism or other moderate/libertarian left ideas. You just redefine them as liberalism because actually acknowledging that these ideas might liberate workers faster than autocracy is very inconvenient for campism.
What do you mean by this? What kinds of methods do you find acceptable?
Some form of vote. And this isn’t an argument on which system is better or not, just a definition of democracy compared to other forms of government.
There is absolutely talk of political theory on hexbear.
It is very little and it doesn’t get upvoteed much. If you are going to see posts from all, it isn’t there.
We aren’t going to pretend liberals are worth engaging with politically.
But Hexbear talks about liberals a lot, far more than any other political group. It comes across as a communal hate time for one group. It feels strange to focus on one half of the political systems typically represented in democracies and not the other.
not some “just vooooote” liberal
I touched on this in my reply. There is little in terms of discussion for organization or action. It doesn’t come across as a group wanting to make change, but complain. And the hostility to voting feels like it comes from not wanting to do anything in the political sphere that will actually affect change.
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We are watching an actual genocide unfold in Gaza right now and it is impossible for Israel to hide it from the world. When will we finally get a single image from China depicting this so called Uyghur genocide? There’s not one image of death camps, mass graves, or dead bodies. How on earth is that possible? Internet access is extremely widespread in China.
Genocide doesn’t have too mean death.
You will excuses for the Uighur genocide
Nobody other than one single man claims there is a Uyghur genocide
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I’d say more, but then you’d call me a debate pervert.
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Lemmygrad isn’t “hated” by most of the wider lemmyverse. There’s just a loud and obnoxious minority of people that will rail and rant about lemmygrad. They loudly rant about lemmygrad because they aren’t used to seeing their worldview get challenged and by its very nature as a radical leftist community, lemmygrad is a challenge to the typical background liberal perspective.
It’s no surprise we all end up seeing a lot of threads about “those mean tankies at lemmygrad” (and hexbear too) made by people who can’t take their worldview getting questioned, or even shown to be flawed, or just not standing up to their own scrutiny, and who get mad when that happens. There are also of course people with ideological reasons to demonize leftwing politics and will spread shit for that reason alone. But overall, I don’t think most people care enough except to think “oh yeah that’s that instance with those radical lefties, they’re weird but they do make some great memes sometimes.”
