My thoughts is that it’s a simple situation really. If they’re harassing or assaulting people, the women will call the cops or something, simple situation and get the guy arrested. If he’s not doing anything, it’s nothing harmful. Apparently that’s not a solid enough answer. What should I have said?
Is there a magical barrier that keeps men who don’t say they’re trans from entering women’s bathrooms?
A fictitious rapist can only enter women’s bathrooms for raping purposes if they loudly declare that they are trans.
Oh I see, it’s like bankruptcy.
Unexpected !dundermifflin@lemm.ee
“See I’m trans. You have to let me in here to rape people.”
It’s quite interesting to see them make this argument while also claiming that gun control laws can’t possibly work because criminals won’t abide by them.
I guess we need to allow everyone to use any washroom because we need a good man in the women’s washroom to be around to save the women from a bad man in the women’s washroom
Careful, conservatives have historically been against desegregating spaces.
Not if it means white men can go wherever they want!
Gun control laws don’t stop bad actors from acting badly. And neither will restroom laws.
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Yeah, this is probably the right way to go. There’s actually no bathroom police, for most people. It’s an issue in the first place because when someone is trans people will deputise themselves just to harass them.
The social contract, and the knowledge that it isn’t acceptable and any women inside would likely scream and the man would be perceived as an attempted rapist and would face consequences.
In my experience what happens is you look at each other confusedly for a moment, wondering who is in the wrong restroom. Then you realise there are no urinals so it’s probably the women’s restroom. Then the man leaves a bit embarrassed. Source: Happened to me at least twice (once the signs were really unclear).
Happened to me once as the woman. Poor guy was so embarrassed and apologetic.
So, no. I don’t think a rapist cares much if they’re perceived as a rapist. And a lot of (maybe most?) rapists know that they probably won’t be convicted even if caught.
The social contract
and the knowledge that it isn’t acceptable
Rapists, well known followers of social contract who only do things that are acceptable…
It’s not concerning at all that this didn’t seem immensely silly and wrong when you typed it…
and any women inside would likely scream
Because if a bathroom allows trans women, women will then be unable to scream while facing an attempted rape?
the man would be perceived as an attempted rapist and would face consequences.
Are you advocating that any man who even accidentally enters a woman’s restroom startling a woman be declared an attempted rapists?
Otherwise, they will be considered an attempted rapist whether trans and allowed in the bathroom or not…when they start doing the attempted rape…
None of those things prevented rapists from entering bathrooms before.
What public bathroom has dedicated security gaurds? Theres nothing stopping a man from just walking in without having to make stuff up. If someone is acting inappropriate in a public restroom then why does it matter whats in their pants? Gay/lesbian perverts exist too!
As my brother can attest to, there are women take anyone who passes as a man as a threat in the women’s restroom and will go get people to do something. Poor dude was just trying to get tampons.
Seriously that’s always been my question for these people. “Oh no, only women are allowed to enter and I’m not a woman! Oh well, guess I’ll go rape someone somewhere else!” Dude was already planning on committing a crime, guys. Come on.
What should I have said?
“You think about strange men’s genitals a lot, don’t you?”
Or… “You seem to want to talk about sex a lot. Is everything OK at home?”
Depends how likely an actual productive conversation was. It’s not an invalid question without context. With the typical coconuts, yeah maybe just embarrass them.
It’s not an invalid question without context.
On the contrary: it is more than famous enough as a right-wing “gotcha” question that’s very fair to assume it’s invalid by default. Positive context would be necessary to justify treating it as genuine.
Agreed. I more meant that the context is unknown here.
typical coconut
…? Brown on the outside, white on the inside? Like a white-washed Indian person?
It’s a meme, it means “context” here.
I’m not really getting it even after reading that page, but thank you lol
Uhh, yeah, it actually doesn’t explain as well as I had hoped. The bit about “you exist in the context of all in which you live and what came before you” took on a life of it’s own, and it’s associated with the idea that context is important. Maybe I’m in a small meme bubble, though. I probably won’t make that reference again.
Haha, thank you for the explanation. Yeah, I’d heard of the clip, but never heard of that usage of coconuts.
I’m also probably older than the average memer, lol
I don’t get why we have different bathrooms at this point. Its more efficient to just have them all be family bathrooms with floor to ceiling stalls.
Was at a brewery last night where the “bathroom” was a row of sinks, and then a row of doors labeled “sit” or “stand”. The commode cubicles were full length walls and doors, totally private, and this just makes so much more sense to me
Was at a church yard sale yesterday and they had the same setup. Pretty sure it was not a progressive church.
Amen! I went to a restaurant that had this layout. Each stall was like it’s own little room with a full sized door and a shared sink area. It’s more efficient use of space and you get a better stall. The only thing that I think would make it better would be a small side area with a couple urinals.
Nothing, they’re not genuinely interested in a discussion. They’re just trying to pin you with a bad answer and will keep moving the goal post until they think they gotcha.
This. ☝️
It’s best to ignore them. There’s no use getting into an argument with someone who’s disingenuous to start with.
And if they can’t “getchya”, they’ll just stop responding or change the subject without ever acknowledging that you’ve proven your point.
Reminder that this is not a thing that has ever actually happened.
…Or reported, rather (I’m not American).
If a person presenting as a man enters the womens bathroom and goes to the bathroom and washes their hands and leaves… I would say nothing. Why the fuck do you care?
Hell, I have seen grown men enter the women’s room with their daughters, maybe around 6-7 years old. Old enough that they want to use the big girl toilet, young enough that they need supervision.
You know what happened? Nothing. Nothing happened, because 99% of people don’t actually care if you’re not being a creep.
99% of people don’t actually care if you’re not being a creep.
I don’t think that’s true. I think there’s a lot of women who don’t feel comfortable/safe in a vulnerable space with men around. And even though one mightn’t actually undress outside the individual toilet cubicles, it’s still - to many - that kind of space.
I think it’s important to respect women’s (and men’s) desire for privacy - even when not all women feel the same need for privacy - through this cultural change of who uses what bathroom.
And that goes doubly when you expand beyond a particular subset of America to different cultures and people with different experiences.
I have traveled to very conservative countries and have never found the sort of puritanical hand wringing that comes from a certain subset of Americans.
I say this as an American expat who has lived everywhere from Hawaii to the bible belt, to New York.
Can you imagine the pain and anxiety you would cause a biological woman who does not look feminine enough for your line of reasoning here?
You see her in the restroom and act like she doesn’t belong there - maybe you say something, maybe you keep your “discomfort in your vulnerable place” to yourself, but your stupid ideas about what a woman is and how one should look in order to be accepted into a bathroom are hurtful.
I was in an art class last month with a lovely young woman who has pcos. She is a Sikh woman, and therefore does not remove her facial hair.
She had a beard that would put a young man to shame, and now it occurs to me that had she been unfortunate enough to be born in America, she would have had to choose between honouring the basic tenets of her religion, or conforming so she is not shunned - or worse, assaulted for using the womens room.
https://www.learnreligions.com/some-sikh-women-have-facial-hair-2993341
Can you really expect privacy in the communal area of a bathroom? There’s other people walking around you.
“in your biased example the fact that the person is trans isn’t relevant to anything…what’s your point?”
“Counter question: What stops a creep from doing that even if there was an anti trans law?”
i’ve understood that coed bathrooms have existed in various places in the country long before republicans decided they were going to create a campaign against transgender people using restrooms. Grow up. Everyone poops!
This is not even a good question to argue with, if anyone in the restroom is being a creep it’s not ok and that’s that.
I see three broad categories of sexual misconduct a man could get up to in a women’s restroom:
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Sexual assault and/or rape. Since his sex will become very apparent during the act there’s no real disguise needed; avoiding getting caught here is making sure you’re not identifiable to security cameras covering the entrance. Walk in, stand just inside the door.
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In-person voyeurism. Want to get an eyeful in person, see some of that under-stall ankle. I see no functional difference in this case between posing as a trans-woman and posing as a woman. Like what’s even the difference in implementation? You can be slightly lazier with your disguise?
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Installing cameras. Uploading to a shady website or something. Trans-woman is the wrong disguise for this job; you want to pose as a janitor or maintenance worker. Wear a grey jumpsuit with a name sewn to the chest and no one will bat an eye at you taking several trips to carry tools and ladders and shit in there. Drill holes in the wall, run some wire, tamper with the plumbing fixtures. Wear a high vis vest, carry a clipboard, wear a hard hat and walk with purpose and you can bring power tools into places much more secure than a women’s restroom.
I don’t see how trans people existing worsens any risk here, is my point. But it’s not about that, is it?
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What should I have said?
"Wow, sadly I think it means that person has some serious mental issues, and we should get them some help.
Are you feeling okay? Do you want me to call someone for you?"
Whatever you answer to a question like that is going to be attacked. The best way is not to answer, but reply with a different question, for instance “what are you afraid of?”
Its an ancient argument and your answer is correct.
There is no cock check at restroom doors anyone can enter.
Wish there was.
Can’t tell you how many times I’ve went through the embarassment of realizing I left mine at home halfway through a piss.
