So I’m building a new computer before the end of the year and lemmy is obviously pushing me towards Linux.
I am not computer savvy, I have a family member that will help me set up my PC, but I do not want to be calling/messaging them every day when I want to open a program.
Basically my question comes down to: can I operate a Linux PC these days without needing to troubleshoot or type code.
I use my computer about once a week for a few hours I would say, so any time spent troubleshooting is time wasted.
Thanks!
EDIT: since a lot of people are asking what programs I typically use, I’ll just list my most used programs.
Word, Excel, ect(I’m fine with alternatives)
Spotify
Gimp (would have been a make or break, so I’m glad it’s supported)
Brave browser (browser is a browser)
Steam
Discord
I would say that while I could figure out how the kernels work, I’m at a point with computers these days where I don’t have the time. My priorities fall with a seamless daily experience. If I have the time to figure something out I can, but ideally my day to day usage being unbotherd is what I’m after.
A lot of the comments so far have been helpful! I’m definitely going to give Linux a fair shot with my new build, probably start with Mint.
It could not be simpler.
My grandfather in law kept getting scammed and installing viruses while on Windows. I installed Linux Mint on his desktop last year, setup automatic updates, created a non admin account for him, and he fucking loves it.
Keep in mind getting this man to login to Netflix on his TV is a minimum 30 minute long phone call. We had to send people to check on him because his phone was off for 3 days straight; he put it on airplane mode and couldn’t figure out how to turn it off.
He has had 0, yes, exactly 0, problems with his computer since I installed Linux Mint. It’s faster, to point where he noticed and commented on it, and he finds it easier to use than Windows, which has been on every computer he has ever owned.
I promise you, it’s really that easy.
I feel like Linux is good for power users or users like your grandfather who are not very tech savvy. The issues arise with users savvy enough to get themselves into trouble but not enough to understand how to fix it or how to do a slightly more advanced task.
I assume you’re talking about Desktop Environments. Yes, of course. KDE and Gnome rival MacOS as far as usability goes. The better part is that other software development groups port their software over to Linux as well and make it as seamless as possible.
People run into confusion here when people flood the comments on user questions like this, so let me shut that down right now.
If you need something that is a straight Desktop Environment, get a distro with KDE or Gnome, and a known OS that will have a lot of user base getting questions and answers if you even run into any.
Fedora or Ubuntu. Don’t listen to anyone arguing for their preferred favorites.
Don’t listen to performance comments.
You want a solid, no issues, not needing to look for help kind of distro. It’s those two, no question, and they both have KDE and Gnome variants.
That’s really about it.
Fully agree with this. There will be a slight learning curve since it will be different from what your used to, but it’s friendly enough to figure out.
If you know the windows program you want to use just search something like “Linux alternative for x” (sometimes there is specific KDE or Gnome progs)
I would maybe add Linux Mint to that list, but otherwise you’re spot on. Fedora and Ubuntu are the easiest and most robust systems for novice computer users.
Depends. If someone is gaming with new hardware, don’t use a distro that doesn’t update the kernel quickly and regularly.
Almost every problem with hardware on mint is solved by going through the process of updating the kernel or switching to a distro with up to date libraries.
It’s fine for a lot of people, but it doesn’t “just work” outside of the use case of only browsing the internet and word documents.
This is coming from someone who used mint for 4 years. There was about a dozen times where the software on the software center was so out of date that it simply didn’t work and I had to resort often to using random ppa’s which often broke other things. Definitely not user friendly.
That being said, Cinnamon is probably one of the most user friendly DEs for people switching from window. It is very nice.
Linux Mint is Ubuntu with specific changes.
That’s how all distros work. They exist so that you don’t have to make changes yourself.
Only thing I might add would be potentially Bluefin. It is Fedora with Gnome, except Atomic. It markets itself as:
The best of both worlds: the reliability and ease of use of a Chromebook, with the power of a GNOME desktop.
It’s been fantastic for me with automatic updates and everything installed through flathub so you don’t bork your system with any misconfigured installs.
Also: should you wish for something with Fedora literally in the name, Fedora Silverblue and Fedora Kionite are the upstream—published by the Fedora Project—versions of Bluefin that use GNOME and KDE, respectively.
Either could be an excellent choice should you wish for
Atomic
The whole system is updated in one go, and an update will not apply if anything goes wrong, meaning you will always have a working computer.
Stop using Brave, people.
I agree on the stop using brave part, but if your blog starts with this argument, your opinion piece means shit
Why was appointing Eich as CEO so controversial? It’s because he donated $1,000 in support of California’s Proposition 8 in 2008, which was a proposed amendment to California’s state constitution to ban same-sex marriage. Eich wrote a blog post defending himself in 2012, when the donation was initially discovered, where did not apologize and denied the donation made him a bigot
I also agree with you. Please don’t be shy with the downvotes
Yes it is. Pick a newbie friendly distribution. Say Ubuntu.
IMHO Windows is only “user friendly” because it’s preinstalled on most PC’s.
User friendliness comes with experience.
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I think the issue is trying to figure it out. I can build computers all day long but just about anything I want to do in Linux requires a browser and a search engine.
You’re also comparing hardware vs. software for your thoughtful dig of the OP, which are very different.
They are comparing the level of knowledge required to do them.
Which are about as related as the knowledge required to mount drywall and the knowledge required to run a ham radio station. You tell me which is more complicated but either way there are most certainly radio amateurs out there that don’t know the first thing about handywork and handymen that could barely find the on-off switch on a broadcast-rig.
Okay but if I told you Linux was as easy as watching a YouTube video showing how to hang dry wall, then you might rightfully say “this isnt so bad”.
Absolutely. Anything can be learned and unless things build on top of each other you can’t really compare difficulties.
There are linux distros with installers that are windows style, and have a display manager that mimics it as well. Would that count as building on top of existing knowledge? I actually never used something like Mint but if people are putting it on their grandparents computers without issue there gotta be something there.
Point being that OP must’ve installed Windows before and therefore should be able to build a computer hardware-wise?
Start with Mint and use flatpaks. You will be all set.
Dumb user friendly (having no particular background): yes
Dumb user friendly (having Windows background): no
Windows knowledge makes learning other OS harder because Windows is the weirdest OS out there.
Eh, in terms of UI and shortcuts, Plasma is very close. If you sit a Windows poweruser in front of Plasma, I’m quite confident they will feel right at home.
That’s actually how I got introduced to Linux. Then I discovered the Settings app. Fast forward: EndeavourOS btw.
Most of that sounds pretty easy to pull off. I have a few thoughts, though:
- What games do you run in Steam?
- Just a bit of a warning: Discord is annoying about updates, at least with the Debian version. I can’t remember what the Flatpak does.
- For MS Office, most distros should come with LibreOffice. If you have problems with LibreOffice, then Google Docs should be fine.
- You’ll have to run Spotify from the browser, but I imagine that won’t be a problem, as you’re probably not an audiophile
- Run GIMP as a Flatpak, as distro versions tend to have weird bugs with the resynthesizer plugin.
On Fedora AFAIK you can have Spotify app.
I had no idea there was even a native Spotify port for Linux.
It’s on Arch and Debian as well which means it’s on basically every distro
Re: Discord
You can edit a text file to get it to stop checking for updates. IDK if this is viable on Debian but on Fedora it was never more than 1 update behind so I never had an issue in years
I think it’s on the Archwiki, but it applies to any Linux
I added an apt repo someone had created. I’ve checked how it works, and it’s just a CI routine pulling the latest Discord package for the website and throwing it in a repo.
Really, you already use gimp, but not linux?
It’s what I got to use in highschool computer class, I’m a sucker for what I know.
I’ll be slightly contrarian to others and give a different perspective: you may find yourself hitting some roadblocks, I’ll try to explain.
I set up Linux Mint for my elderly parents. The key thing is, I set it up for them, functioning as the administrator for that machine, making sure they had a non admin account and configured their desktop to only show the shortcuts they cared about (firefox).
It worked fine, and I only got calls once every few months. They got scared if some popup occured, or if they accidentally saved something to their desktop that they wanted to get rid of. I don’t know if that really meets the definition of seamless, and I don’t know if you’d even consider those problems.
The other thing that can happen, is hardware interfaces. I know that you’ve listed out your use case. I’m just saying that if your birthday rolls around and someone buys you a 3d printer where you “just plug it in”, you’re going to be in for a long troubleshooting day, if it isn’t natively supported.
With Steam games, you can often get away with enabling proton, but… Small issues like being able to select multiple drive folders have sent me down long troubleshooting avenues as well. And when I use the word troubleshoot, I’m inevitably referring to the command line.
Lots of people are encouraging you to try, and you can make that decision. I just want to toss out that it might not be seamless. But I don’t think Windows is seamless either. It’s just what most people are used to.
I don’t think Windows is seamless either. It’s just what most people are used to.
This. I’ve never used Windows 11. Apparently, they are removing the Control Panel. If I can’t figure out how to fix a problem that comes up, I’m going to have to search for the answer and test out solutions. This is no different from Linux.
Hardware support is also two-sided.
For example: game controllers.
On Linux, any first-party Switch, Playstation, or Xbox controller works out of the box. Most 3rd party controllers also work out of the box. Even Wii remotes work once paired over bluetooth (and the pointing works but takes some setup).
On windows, xbox controllers work out of the box, except for very old ones which require a driver. 3rd party pc controllers will tend to work out of the box (or sometimes with a driver), but wired Switch and Playstation controllers need hacky workarounds to work or to get full functionality. Wireless controllers can often be paired with bluetooth, but I’ve had hit and miss luck with windows and first party Sony/Nintendo controllers
Don’t use an immutable distro like endless or silverblue. It’s a whole new paradigm to learn (in addition to learning Linux basics). You should get your feet wet with something more user-friendly first.
My big recommendation is Ubuntu. Normal ubuntu. Not one of the flavors or derivatives. It’s got everything you need, plus very easy to troubleshoot if something goes wrong. Try to avoid using the command line when following guides online, there is nothing on Ubuntu you actually need it for and the graphical tools are very good.
Don’t listen to the complaining about snaps. You won’t notice them, they won’t affect you negatively, they are designed to just set and forget. The complaints come from a highly particular and technical subset of the Linux community.
If you really don’t like the look of Ubuntu, then I’d second all the recommendations for Mint. Those two distros have the most number of non-technical users in their communities because they are both very user-friendly and well-tested. I’d recommend against trying anything else until you’ve gotten comfortable with Ubuntu or Mint.
It kinda depends a bit on the user’s background… For someone who is used to windows and how computers in general works, I would probably agree with you.
But for people who are more phone/tablet native, I don’t think something like Fedora Silverblue is actually that bad of a choice. It comes natively with Gnome 3, which isn’t too dissimilar to Android or iOS. Updates are installed in one fell swoop with a reboot, just like Android or iOS. Flatpaks behave much more like an App on Android or iOS, they are self contained, and don’t affect eachother.
I just set up my daughters (9 y/o) first school laptop, and picked Fedora Silverblue, and apart from learning about the save icon, and learning how to store files in a filesystem, she was pretty much instantaneously functional, having most of her prior computing experience on an Android phone.
The “phone-native” theoretical new user may become more of a real thing in the future too. When GNOME and Pantheon started developing in that direction I thought they were chasing ghosts, but now it turns out they may have just been a decade ahead of their time.
Unfortunately the snap argument matly have merit after all. Some companies have dropped support for it and are all in on flatpak. I’ve run into several cases where something was available on flathub but not the snap store. And considering gnome, kde, and most new devs are all in on flatpak, someone would be really missing out on some great apps that make life easier if they only had snaps.
Not only that but Ubuntu has really diverged in other areas as well they may only show up later like choosing LXD over podman. People should just get an experience that is closest to SteamOS for maximum compatibility and support atp. Putting someone on Ubuntu I think is like orphaning them.
I don’t think the snap argument is without merit, I just think it’s an argument only had by a very technical subset of users. I think your comment illustrates that.
I don’t agree that anybody would be left “orphaned” on Ubuntu. LXD vs Podman is again a very technical question for a specific subset of users.
I also don’t agree that SteamOS is the goal for compatibility and support. Compatibility is best with Ubuntu, it’s the most widely deployed and used desktop distribution by far. Most other desktop distros are a rounding error when compared to Ubuntu user-wise.
I’ve also personally had a buggy experience with SteamOS. I wouldn’t use it as a desktop in its current state, but I’m aware some folks do just that.
For someone new to Linux who just needs to get on with their desktop work, Ubuntu is the best distro there is (flawed as it may be). Mint is also a good choice for the same reasons.
Mint should be pretty easy to get used to, solid choice IMO, as for the programs
Word, Excel, ect(I’m fine with alternatives)
If you’re fine with libreoffice, no problems
Spotify
Don’t know.
Gimp (would have been a make or break, so I’m glad it’s supported)
No problems
Brave browser (browser is a browser)
Not sure if there’s a flatpak, U might need to add a PPA, but it’s just a one time copy/paste a few commands.
Steam
Works fine, but some games might not run or require some tinkering, check games u play on protondb.com
Discord
It’s a bit annoying because they require u to have the latest version all the time, it won’t auto update, and the package might take a while to update, so u either download and update manually every time (it will be a different install than the flatpak package) or use the web version, peraonally i just run a script to download and extract the
tar.gzversion when there’s an update.brave has flatpack , and you don’t really have to do all that to update discord just go to software store and click update?
I don’t use flatpak but i assume there’s a delay between discord and flatpak updates, or even if there is no delay
just go to software store and click update?
This would update everything, right? That’s usually not what i want when i’m opening discord.
I’ve had no problems with the Discord flatpak and updates. I use a KDE variant of UBlue and the package manager prompts me to update all flatpaks when I start the computer (whenever there are updates available), which I do with one click.
For a new user, i would think that individually managing package updates is probably not a desired workflow.
even if there is delay discord won’t force you to update until there is update in flat pack, and no software store won’t update everything you can update whatever you want, and you don’t even have to use flat pack version to update with software store. most distros allow you to update apps installed through package manager too
There are also 3rd party interfaces which are basically web client wrappers that add some features.
Could you share that script with op?
Sure
#!/bin/bash DIRNAME=$(dirname -- "$( readlink -f -- "$0"; )"); cd "$DIRNAME" wget -O discord.tar.gz 'https://discord.com/api/download/stable?platform=linux&format=tar.gz' && tar xvf discord.tar.gz && rm discord.tar.gzEdit:
DIRNAMEis just to find the script location and download/extract there, in case u call the script from somewhere else
Ubuntu is much less user hostile than windows. My parents only used Ubuntu for the past several years because they inherited my old laptop. They just want to Google stuff, so all they need is a familiar browser.
Oh for the love of Linus, block all notifications requests from websites at the browser level. Comon people accept all notifications requests and get inundated by them.
It’s an interesting angle, the hostility thing. People in the know have largely fallen out of love with Ubuntu but imho that’s not necessarily because Ubuntu fell in quality but just because so many “better” things have come up since Ubuntu 04.10. It is definitely a sound choice for non-techy people, maybe more than ever. Personally I’d prefer (almost) any contemporary desktop over Gnome these days, but I can definitely see the appeal for others in terms of simple design language.
Basically you can turn any old laptop into a Chromebook these days using Linux, and most people just like your parents most definitely do not need more than a functional webbrowser. Basically a smartphone with a larger screen and physical keyboard. Even if you don’t care about your privacy (or freedom from notification-spam) why still pay the Microsoft-tax.
The reason I still choose Ubuntu, or sometimes Mate, specially for other people is because I know it’s highly likely to just work on any laptop I throw it into. Most people don’t care one single bit about the downsides of Ubuntu.
What downsides though right? “We” object to Ubuntu over matters like Canonical being a for-profit company or their choice of Desktop Environment. At the end of the day, who cares? If it works it works, right?
The downsides you would only read on Linux communities. My mother couldn’t even begin to understand what snap is about.
Vanilla GNOME make brain feel good. Ubuntu GNOME make brain feel bad
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Hi there, I use nearly all the stuff you do and I am on Linux for like 2-3 years now.
I use PopOS. PopOS is a distro with a user interface that differs a bit from windows. But you will get used to it, its not like on Linux “up” is “down”.
PopOS has a lot of programs preinstalled, that help “normal users”. This includes drivers for Nvidia-GPUs and Flatpak which is a way to install software on all Linux-Systems opposed to the normal package managers, distros ship with, Flarpak e.g. has Spotify and Discord. But other distros might ship it too and you can definitely install it later on.
What you should definitely learn to use is the software-center (or App store or whatever some distros call it). This is a central place, where most software can be found and installed. Also all software installed through it can be updated here. So it’s in a way like steam for all the non-games.
I currently use (natively, so no web app or smth):
- Spotify
- Steam
- Discord
- Libreoffice (instead of MS Office)
- Gimp
- Brave (as backup browser to test if it’s Firefox’ fault)
Libreoffice is enough for day to day usage, if you are no power user with VBA-Scripts or mayor macros.
Games work mostly well, but as others have said, look at ProtonDB to check your specific Steam-Games. I mostly play single player titles or PvE stuff without the need for anticheat. Nearly all those titles work.
If a game is not on steam, you can check lutris. Lutris has install scripts for a lot of Battle.net games as well as GoG among others. There is also the heroic games launcher, but you don’t need to know all that yet.
PS: The great thing about Lemmy is that you don’t have to ask your friend, you can ask here.
PPS: If you plan to game on your PC, may I suggest some games? (All work well for me, of course)
Dwarf fortress - is a city builder/sims-like game, on steam for money or on the official website for free, but with less art.
Core Keeper - a small Indy game about digging, crafting and fighting
Deep Rock Galactic - a first person shooter with mining and fighting bugs
Factorio -
anTHE automation gameDisco Elysium - probably the best RPG/Detective game ever
The Long journey home - a space exploration rogue-like
Oh wonderful! Thank you for the suggestions!
to test if it’s Firefox’ fault
Firefox follows web standards the most, but because most people use Chromium-based browsers web developers make websites for Chrome instead for the web.
I do know that, that’s why I use FF.
But the sentence would be a lot longer if O wrote something along the lines of “To try if the website doesn’t adhere to the official web standards instead of googles own, which brave uses, since it (like most browsers nowadays) is built on top of chromium unlike Firefox, which uses the gecko engine to render websites.”
