“I must preserve my echo chamber!”
I find most people who complain about echo chambers are just mad that they aren’t allowed to barge in everyone’s door and start shouting their bigoted opinions like it’s some moral imperative we all give equal time to all opinions/ideologies.
Are positive, liberal LGBT communities echo chambers? Are they not allowed a collective space to hang out without having to explain themselves all the time?
Are positive, liberal LGBT communities echo chambers
Could be, especially if there aren’t a multitude of sentiments there. That doesn’t mean all sentiments must be present of course.
Are they not allowed a collective space to hang out without having to explain themselves all the time
I don’t think anyone said they aren’t allowed to have such a space.
It depends. Defederation for good reasons is good, defederation for bad or false reasons is generally bad.
As an example, having a strict and democratic defederation/federation policy has contributed to Hexbear having the most active trans community on Lemmy, and it’s a good thing that there’s an actively protected trans space free from bigotry.
At the same time, defederating from instances for political reasons under the guise of other reasons is generally a bad thing.
It’s largely context dependent.
Yes. Doing something bad for a bad reason is bad, doing a good thing for a good reason is good.
After that, things get more complicated.
I mean, “bad” in this case is completely subjective. There are large trans communities on other instances (blahaj being the most obvious one) and they have their reasons for defederating from Hexbear.
Hexbear defederated from blahaj, not the other way around. Either way, Hexbear remains the most active trans community on Lemmy.
I understand why anticommunist instances like Lemmy.world defederate from Hexbear, I just don’t think it will help Lemmy.world in the long run, as Lemmy itself by nature is going to attract Communists due to its structure.
I dunno, I feel like anyone drawn to Lemmy for that reason will find lemmy.ml nearly as easily. If world suffers because of bad practices, well, that’s the way it goes. At least the fediverse lives on.
They will, yes, but not always. Apps like Voyager assume .world as the default, causing friction when leftists join and run into silencing of their views.
Lemmy.ml is interesting, it’s a reference to Marxism-Leninism, but it doesn’t require users to be Communists like Lemmygrad, or leftists in general like Hexbear, hence the active population on Hexbear.
Honestly .world should have just blocked the most common shiposting Hexbear comms like chapotraphouse and dunk_tank as these are what most users found annoying. And I believe ther are more leftists on .world than one might think. There’s a great games comm on Hexbear too, and downvote away on the leftist game posts - Hexbear doesn’t have downvotes anyway!
The problem is that Lemmy.world doesn’t want Communists using their communities, not that their users shouldn’t be exposed to Communist posts, because they wanted homogenous liberalism.
There are some leftists on .world, but they usually leave in favor of leftist instances from what I have personally seen.
Absolutely agree about Hexbear’s games comm, easily the best gaming comm on Lemmy.
There are some leftists on .world, but they usually leave in favor of leftist instances from what I have personally seen.
Fair, that’s what I did.
Well that’s definitely your own experience on federated platforms, but I wasn’t speaking to that circumstance. I made a mastodon account and criticized our government’s massive funding of Israel in spite of our lack of critical infrastructure and healthcare and got spammed with “Israel has a right to defend itself, and you 're a trumper if you think otherwise” type comments by people that post one response and then immediately block you. Which is laughable and couldn’t be further from the truth. That is the perpetual echo chamber I was referring to from my personal experience.
Ok
You’re in an echo chamber if you curate your home feed to only show one opinion and then never change it; it doesn’t matter what the opinion is
That’s a flagrant strawman
How?
It’s ironically more about certain instances creating echo chambers through constant censorship.
Imagine an instance full of Nazi’s that only ever let’s Nazi posts stick. Is this if any value, or would defederating improve the quality of your experience?
HOW DARE YOU HAVE A MODERATELY DISSENTING VOICE, YOU LITERAL NAZI?!?!
I’ll take this comment more seriously when literal nazis stop demanding we listen to them.
Oh literal Nazis can get fucked. My point is that you can disagree on topics and that health discourse is good
I’d like to come to your house and take a shit in your bed.
There’s moderation and there’s making it into an echo chamber. Seems like a difference many don’t understand.
seems like nitpicking to me.
I don’t know if you’re joking or proving my point
Why would someone who doesn’t like blocking and de-federation like “federated platforms”?
Yeah part of the point of this is that it’s not a free speech zone unless you want a free speech instance. I prefer a more curated against bigots experience. Others don’t. Still others prefer other forms of curation. Federation means we can all talk to each other as long as we stay within boundaries of what others will stay federated with.
Of course this is an ML post
Lemmy.ml is federated with the vast majority of major instances, moreso than others like Lemmy.world. What are you trying to say?
It’s like yall forgot the entire post/punchline lmao guess folks really do require /s
Still doesn’t make sense, Lemmy.ml doesn’t constantly threaten to defederate from other instances over political reasons
It’s just me making a dumb diss you’re overthinking it
At least you acknowledge it’s dumb
Yes that was the intent
Might be good to add an
/s, considering how common that is on the anti-communist servers.yunno, on second thought, maybe i don’t want to be using a social platform where communism is expressly the default stance
If you love Capitalism and Liberalism I know just the platform for you: Reddit.com
Man that seems to be way more active than this one
The structure of Lemmy itself is built on Communist principles, you’re going to have Communists even if you try to block Communist instances.
we could defederate i guess
I’ve never heard of pawb.social
It’s an instance for furries.
:(
It isn’t, but don’t let that stop you from leaving.
Except it wasn’t sarcastic
I think there’s benefit to blocking the particularly Nazi/pedo instances, but otherwise do wish we’d just all be able to federate together and share content for the most part.
You’ll just need to find an instance that federates with most instances. I think that’s why I chose lemm.ee. A lot of them censored porn too which was lame.
I defederated lemmy.world because I don’t feel like hosting and re transmitting US propaganda.
It is kinda surprising how much obvious propaganda makes it onto Lemmy, for example those memes that aren’t really memes as much as “haha this opinion wrong”
This is a very political place, even compared to Reddit where there’s a shitload of politics
Lemmy itself is largely made up of Communists, Anarchists, and liberals fleeing Reddit.
As a consequence, there’s a lot of Communist agit-prop, and a lot of reflective panic on the hands of liberals.
The cycle of a specific comm on world
we only allow memes here
points out posts that aren’t memes
stop asking us to follow our rules
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
freed speech also applies to lemmy servers. If the server doesn’t agree with most of what’s on your server, they can and should have the option to not associate with your server at all. This honestly sounds like a shit take elon would have made.
let people defederate idgaf
this is so true lmao.
mm yes federated media platform, surely i won’t run into shitty people now
runs into shitty people:
I tried like 4 different lemmy instances before settling on lemm.ee because it hasn’t defederated from the socialists or “tankies”. So I can participate.
This defederation fracturing lemmy really speaks to both self-censorship of allowable ideologies and also bad quality of admins and mods several servers.
If lemmy can’t somehow federate communities separately from instances I don’t see lemmy thriving.
Yes, I basically searched for which one is least likely to defederate from random shit.
I’m prepared to traverse seas of horrors to bring home fresh memes every single day (except I sometimes skip alternating Thursdays if I have to wait for too long to say hi to Reginald).
I’m not sure what’s going on in this comment but I like it
Lemmy is thriving enough. Self-sufficient instances like Hexbear are fine without large amounts of federation. I do see Lemmy.world running into issues in the future due to their strong Zionist slant and anti-Leftist stance, but the other major instances seem to be fine.
I do see Lemmy.world running into issues in the future
I think lemmy.world is already pretty bad. To get away from their posts and comments I’ve considered joining hexbear, since you people honestly have the best content and most wholesome community and aren’t federated with .world, but I also don’t want to be completely isolated from the rest of the fediverse. However, I just noticed there are only 5 instances in hexbear’s blocked instance list and plenty in the linked list. Maybe I didn’t notice how all other instances started federating with hexbear again?
I don’t know what the “allowed” instance list means though.
To get away from their posts and comments I’ve considered joining hexbear, since you people honestly have the best content and most wholesome community and aren’t federated with .world
Make an account, Hexbear is perfect for you. I made a Hexbear account a few months ago and enjoy my time there much more than I do here, there’s far fewer struggle sessions and the quality of discussion is much higher.
I also don’t want to be completely isolated from the rest of the fediverse.
The cool thing about Hexbear is that it has by far the most active userbase I have seen, it’s fully self-sufficient and you won’t likely miss the rest.
However, I just noticed there are only 5 instances in hexbear’s blocked instance list and plenty in the linked list. Maybe I didn’t notice how all other instances started federating with hexbear again?
Some instances have Hexbear blocked on their side that Hexbear doesn’t have blocked, so this can be misleading, however it’s mostly the right-wing instances like shitjustworks, lemmy.world, and lemmy.ca that are of note, and their content fine to drop.
Hexbear the most wholesome community? I need to wash my eyes after reading that.
Although I’m curious, what itch does it itch for you?
Have you visited Hexbear? It’s a very wholesome instance overall and posters are very supportive, assuming you’re a Leftist. What leads you to believe otherwise?
Lol when I got banned from a major comm for defending a trotskyist comrade, after two years of participation on the instance, I learned all about the wholesomeness of your “non-sectarian” instance.
I think a prime example of hexbear wholesomeness is their trans megathreads: https://hexbear.net/post/3363552
They even have a community to help each other out: !mutual_aid@hexbear.net
I’m genuinely
unsurprised my previous comment got removed but anyway at least thanks for answering and providing an example.Anticommunism is generally removed on Lemmy.ml, probably the reason.
yes it is known that not being wholsome = not being communist.
Yeah it is thriving, what I meant is that to have a chance to replace reddit, lemmy needs to find some technical solutions (moving / migrating / merging of communities) and somehow stop fracturing into islands.
But maybe that age of the internet has passed and people are no longer willing because of trolls, bad faith actors, sock puppets, bots… and the increasing polarization of ideology and propaganda.
I don’t think surpassing or having anything to do with reddit is valuable. I use lemmy because I think reddit sucks but now I can see how it can be better. For example, I want to disable all voting on my instance, I don’t believe it helps anything and the only reason lemmy has it is because of reddit, there is no algorithm or anything. That to me seems like the worst reason to have something.
Ok I’m just thinking out loud here…
Part of what makes (made) reddit great is that there are so many niche communities. That you scroll through reddit and find something interesting and new and can just jump in and discuss it.
THAT I think we can all agree would be great to grow in lemmy.There is no question that lemmy IS the same social media “mode” as reddit, a link aggregator where users can democratically sort news and articles and topics and discuss things. Lemmy is a clone of reddit, this can’t be disputed. The question is how to make it better than reddit and avoid the pitfalls. Right now moderation and admins are a bit problematic like e.g. the recent vegan clusterfuck.
And yeah for certain subs like vegan you don’t need downvotes since there wouldn’t be too many “controversial” topics. I suspect part of what is lacking on reddit is that there isn’t enough “tagging” on reddit. Like having ways for users to mark a post “funny/silly” or “unconstructive” or “misinformation” or NSFW, NSFL or hatespeech. Besides upvoting. Maybe I’m wrong with this.
But I think over time reddit degraded because the system didn’t support protection against malicious actors. For example tons of meta jokes. Every serious topic has a joke comment on top. You can’t filter them out. That might be a great use of AI like chatGPT for this where the AI learns from the tags and then allows to filter out joke comments. Not censor but allows you to filter out things that can be fun and crass but are not good for long term community. Basically to help moderators.
Of course the current problem is that users themselves have become more and more “post-truth”, not just the fascists but the “leftists”, liberals and centrists too and shout down any dissident opinion because they assume it’s bad faith. Nobody wants to engage any more because they’ve been burned. Maybe that can be reversed if lemmy has the right tools and the community is moderated well enough to “heal”. But again, the admins and moderators are currently the problem on lemmy. Lots of power-tripping and radicalism (and I don’t just mean the socialists lol).
And voting with your feet is also a problem because it leads to fracturing like mentioned in OP and that does have a negative effect. Like the europe@feddit.de community lost 75% of it’s users with the move to feddit.org. I assume similar things will happen to the vegan community now that you moved and people searching for vegan will be confused. Better technical tools are required.
So I think it’s not just about surpassing reddit in numbers, even though at least some growth is very curcial for niches to thrive, but to grow the usability of the software.
Anyway, just rambling / thinking out loud 🙂
deleted by creator
And their desire to spin off their own version of lemmy in Java
Wait, what? Where can I read more about that?
It’s called “Sublinks,” I believe. They don’t trust the spooky scary commies and want to make their own, worse Lemmy alternative, which is silly.
Idk if it’s really to avoid the dirty commies.
Seriously think it’s just them thinking they either know better or just don’t want to learn rust
They could wait for Lemmy official dev or learn rust, it would take far less time. No, they want control.
lemmy world admins cracking down on posts they don’t like with no accountability and arbitrarily changing their ToS after the fact to cover for it, but somehow the entirety of the factionalist weirdos who cling to the idea of a corpo-friendly Reddit clone are laying the blame on… other instances?
Users are celebrating them for a learning moment so yeah then blaming others is on brand
Some places suck.
Some places suck, by design.
Reducing criticism of systemic problems to “just because you disagree” is dishonest… and indicative.
“You censored me for my opinion”
“What opinion was it?”
“…”
“What opinion was it Anakin?”
I see no problem with blocking users for their belief that I should be slaughtered over the sin of checks comments being born in the USA.
And I see no problem blocking instances where they gather.
Buddy your country has killed tens if not over a hundred million people in the conquest of war for hegemonic power and resource control across the globe. Someone on the internet hurt your feelings when making a joke. Obviously those two things are the same. 🙄
You do realize that was most likely a joke comment, right? The genocidal US Empire is awful, but the idea that some online Communist thinks you should die purely from being from the US is silly.
Read Fanon
I prefer if my instance is federated to everything and I can just block what I don’t care to see. Like lemmygrad seems to be some fascist propaganda and hexbear is the same but for people that are underage so I blocked both. Apparently I was permabanned from both without posting or commenting there so it’s not like I can interact with people there even if I wanted to.
Like lemmygrad seems to be some fascist propaganda and hexbear is the same
Lemmygrad and Hexbear are Communists (as well as anarchists in the case of Hexbear), the polar opposite of fascism.
They aren’t like any other anarchist I know and I’m in a local anarchist group. Like no anarchist should ever be defending authoritarian governments.
You could try talking to them instead of calling them fascists, there’s a good chance you have no idea what they actuslly believe and are filling in gaps with your own imagination.
I tried to understand why they were defending governments like in Russia, North Korea and China but got permabanned for sectarianism.
In the case of Russia, Hexbear largely hates it, they just believe it to be working against NATO. As for the DPRK and PRC, Hexbear defends AES over Capitalist countries, and that includes Anarchists.
It’s impossible to be an Anarchist and side with Western Hegemony.
You don’t need to side with any hegemony but defending countries that would and have killed anarchist movements makes you less of an anarchist than one that does defend any western power.
Ultimately advocating for anarchist ideals is more likely to work outside of authoritarian governments so I cannot understand how hexbear can defend those. But then again people vote against their interests all the time so maybe I shouldn’t be surprised.
defending countries that would and have killed anarchist movements makes you less of an anarchist than one that does defend any western power.
Western powers kill Anarchists too, to a greater extent. If you do not understand this, you are not an Anarchist.
Ultimately advocating for anarchist ideals is more likely to work outside of authoritarian governments so I cannot understand how hexbear can defend those. But then again people vote against their interests all the time so maybe I shouldn’t be surprised.
Anarchists picking Socialism over Capitalism and Imperialism makes sense
In aggregate; 5 instances, less than 5 communities, and more than 69, nice, blocked users.
I don’t mess around. I don’t hesitate to block people who argue needlessly, make my experience less informational or less entertaining, troll, or disregard arguments made in foundational logic to push a point of view or ‘win the argument’. Similarly my instance ignores downvotes and does not display them; as with most platforms which behave similarly to reddit; they simply do not work outside of your personal, local account, local instance, user-sorting context.
My instance removed downvotes before we even launched federation. Also more instances preemptively defederated with us before that even happened because they were scared of the evil tankies (which is funny because a bunch of us are also anarchists).
Libs and skill issues, lmao
Everyone likes dialectics and agree that it’s the best method to learn and move the thinking forward… Until they actually met with some antithesis of their thinking.
I think it depends on what you disagree with. If one is promoting going after our neighbors, hunting them down and killing them? Yeah, defederate. If another is Meta trying to take over the federation. Yeah, I vote defederate. If one thinks Hawaiian pizza is a travesty and the other doesn’t, hold your horses.
