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This comment section is a shitshow and OP admits to being a troll. Locking this thread.
I mean it’s actually an interesting point though?
Men should be loved and cared for in a relationship too, not treated like shit by default.
I hope you aren’t treated like shit by default.
Men are statistically treated worse than women (by both men and women), there’s papers on this
Males being raped is a very underreported and tragic occurrence. You can’t compare apples and oranges.
(I have friends who were raped and never reported or did anything about it, out of stigma, shame, or not expecting anything [justice] to come of reporting it)
I have female friends who never reported or did anything about it, out of stigma (what were you wearing? Were you asking for it? Are you faking?), shame (why was he able to get you alone?) Or not expecting justice to come of reporting it (you’ll ruin his life, it was a mistake, I’m sure you deserved it, we don’t have enough evidence.)
That pendulum swings both ways.
Fucking thank you. Men’s libbers (and there’s a loooooot of them on lemmy, as you can see in your downvotes) like to trot out the “men don’t report because of stigma!” line, but it’s like, my guy, women do too?? For every woman brave enough to report, there’s anywhere from 5-10 that don’t report at all due to fear/stigma.
Of course rape happens to men (mostly by other men) too. But, couple things:
- it’s not a competition or dick measuring contest. Rape is bad, m’kay? Regardless of gender.
- it’s disingenuous to say that it happens to men just as much, or more. It feels icky, like they’re shoving themselves in a victimhood narrative where they don’t belong.
That depends on what you mean by “treated”. Men are not as well trusted not to be violent, and taken less seriously when the victims of sexual crimes. Women are paid less well and get more online abuse. That’s just a few examples for each side, obviously we could go on and on. Maybe we all want better treatment.
Got some links to share?
Isn’t that the status quo? I guess it’s not really fathers to daughters, but most women I know went through some amount of “here’s how to be a good wife” lessons from their mothers or family. I think women get a lot of “traditional gender roles” training that’s mostly about being caretakers.
Usually people putting forth this kinda “women should learn how to care for their man” attitude are coming from a conservative “traditional family values” position.
Really, we should be teaching people how to ask about and learn the needs of their partner, and how to determine your own needs and communicate those to your partner. Basic emotional intelligence stuff. It doesn’t have to be gendered at all.
Come here so I can taze you
That’s just estim on hard mode
Yes pls
Well, I’m certainly not gonna teach my daughter to trust boys. That will lead to places I don’t even want to think about.
I’m not gonna teach my daughters who they are or are not supposed to trust. Because I will never teach my children what they should think, but rather how to think for themselves. I will encourage them to only trust individuals that prove themselves trustworthy, but again, that’s not my decision to make.
They’re not extensions of me; they are distinct, individual human beings. So I certainly hope you will not teach her to be distrustful; that leads to misery and pain, all in the pursuit of something that doesn’t belong to you and never will (her mind is her own, whether you like it or not).
My guy, the motivation is right but the thinking is wrong.
You teach your daughter how to spot manipulative behavior, teach her how to stand up for and protect herself, teach your daughter how to respect herself AND others, teach her how to love herself AND others, teach her what a healthy relationship looks like…
Boys will be boys, they will be dumb and horny teenagers and they will try shit, even with the absolute best of dumb horny boy intentions, also teenage lesbians are quite keen on trying shit too. You need to teach them to spot the difference between their first love and someone telling them what they want to hear in order to go up their shirt.
You teach your daughter how to spot manipulative behavior
Yeah, only do it right. Because some girls have apparently been taught to classify anything they don’t understand as that. Sucks being autistic and trying to explain some emotion and being accused of manipulation and ghosted, because that’s easier than admitting that sometimes you just don’t understand other people as well as you think.
I also hate that folk psychology with “personal borders” (usually asymmetric, quite normal things said to those people are apparently emotional abuse, and quite heavy things from them are just life) and “red flags” (usually applied to autistic people and not applied to literal creepy\insecure behavior) and a few thumb rules which apparently describe anything in a conversation. People employing that also by default consider that everything is fine with them personally.
And the cycle continues. Congrats on being a cog in a machine we’re trying to dismantle.
This feels reductive. Are you seriously saying ‘trust boys’ is a message you should give girls right now? I have boys and girls, and I would never tell my daughter ‘yeah just default to trusting guys’ – hell she had issues with boys not understanding consent or bodily autonomy in elementary school.
And I 100% blame those of us around those boys, we’re the adults, but the fact is girls literally cannot afford to just trust men or boys on meeting.
We need to teach our boys and men to stop doing these things and then we can tell everyone to trust by default.
Yes. Trust boys. Because things happen at once, not in sequence.
That’s what I thought the comments would be about but apparently he should just get called creepy instead.
Sir, this is a shit posting community.
Dont act like this didnt happen on Reddit, serious discussion in spacedicks, dickjokes in worldnews…
“A nonzero amount of women have a tendency to demand respect and support from their partner but not give any in return, and some women actually need to be taught that relationships are a two way street, so make sure your daughters know that because not all of them will” – person who’s been burned a lot
“Anyone who says that is probably a predator” – OP for some god damn reason
As others have pointed out, the guy is likely coming from a misogynistic viewpoint.
I think a lot of women get taught men are the enemy and that all bad things in life come from men and the patriarchy. But that’s all they really get taught.
It’s like when the kids in south park get taught about STDs and how if you don’t wear a condom you get STD. So the girls avoid the boys until they wear condoms 24/7. There is a lesson in there but if you only teach them something that impacts much less than a percentage of 1% you going to miss a whole lot of the puzzle and it’s going to fuck you up before you even start.
I’m not going to argue which gender is the bigger victim of toxic masculinity. The bodies are stacked too high for me to see over. But please don’t say it impacts ‘much less than a percentage of 1%.’
Like, my father used to tie up my dog and whale on it with a belt when he was angry and that’s probably the least fucked-up-thing-your-dad-did story of my peer group. If you don’t think it’s affected you, you are either very lucky, or somebody who is long overdue to talk it out.
You think you spend more that 1% of your life interacting with toxic masculinity and the negatives of the patriarchy?
You either spend a lot of time around a lot of shitty people or it sounds like you got problems.
I’d like to take ‘repression, and over-compensating’ for 500 Alex.
Wow good come back. You really showed me. No need to make make a good argument just quote a meme.
The DAILY DOUBLE! Woo.
Real talk. The effects of toxic masculinity are tangled up everywhere, in everything, crossing the blood-brain barrier like micro plastics. If you honestly think it don’t exist, it’s big sign to me that you are wrapped up in it to drowning. People shut down empathy as a trauma response, or because they’re trying to replicate behaviors of a perceived ‘in-group’ (this would be the patriarchy) to gain acceptance. Either way it’s got you. We’re talking a nationwide ban on healthcare based on gender for half the country, and you don’t see it? You don’t think having healthcare is pretty fucking foundational? Is it 1 in 3 women who live under a ban in America now? Having your leaders celebrated for sexual violence not cast down ain’t a sign to you? 'Grab ‘em by the pussy’ is running neck and neck for one of the most powerful executive positions in the world. We’re criminalizing men who wear feminine attire, policing who is woman enough to piss where. The right just fell over itself to mock a kid who was proud to tears of his father. God forbid a man express joy. I keep getting texts from friends floored over the photo of Walz getting bunny eared by his smiling kids. There’s a big reason why seeing them so completely unafraid to tease their father in public is resonating with people.
Violent and stupid response. Not even funny.
Something like 1/3 of women are victims of rape. This is the world women are forced to endure and try to survive in. That’s the point
Idk, Johnny Bravo probably would agree with you
I feel like society kind of does that for them? Not 100%, but most women’s magazine have a “how to please your man” section. Grooming for women is usually around looking young and pretty and feminine to men, hiding things or pushing/squeezing things for the best shape. While men’s story tend to be about self discovery, women’s media (until recently) was not telling women same message. Media for awhile was heavily focused on women being content as home makers. You gotta learn how to look to get a man after all and then have to do the house making to keep them. Keep yourself young and pretty so he doesn’t get a new model! You don’t like giving head? Or having men cum on your face? Oh, sorry, 90% of sexual media is geared towards men and their desires, and if you wanna keep him, you need to perform. Hell, some men don’t even think women can get pleasure from sex. Advertisements were geared towards being a “Good wife,” not a happy woman (unless you’re chuffed at being a wife). We have recent comics/memes about this. We laugh at them (“I was a scientist” VS “I raised 5 (all male) scientists”), but that’s in certain circles, these were not created to be jokes. There’s not as much as the reverse baked into society. Men didn’t have to learn how to treat a woman for, like, the bulk of our history. I think there’s a lot of focus on men attracting women (and extreme pressure on them to be the main providers), but not necessarily how to treat them. Women tend to do that with sons because, until fairly recently, no one gave a shit if you beat your family every night, rape within marriage was perfectly legal. Women couldn’t get a bank account without a man’s permission. In some countries women can’t leave the house without a man period. Society was teaching men that women were property, and it was usually only the mom in the man’s life that could say, “Hey kiddo, when you get a wife please don’t beat her.” if she wasn’t the kind of woman to say you should beat her.
This is not to say men don’t also suffer. Toxic masculinity has made a place where men have power, but lack the freedom to be vulnerable. Their mental health isn’t taken seriously because “men don’t cry.” Men don’t get “hurt,” men don’t get sad, lonely unless you’re “weak.” Don’t cry, because you’ll be told to “get a tampon.” Women who drank the kool-aid uphold this as well. Even toxic spaces that some men make for themselves (manosphere) are incredibly harmful to the men they say they’re there to uplift. All they focus on is how to get women, how to “catch one” with the bait usually a man’s wealth, or apperence. They don’t talk about how to find a loving partner, how men can look out for abuse, how men can protect themselves. Those men say women have until 25, they’re the gate keepers of “sex.” They make it seem like men and women are diametrically opposed
foes. I think there’s a huge lack in actual helpful male focused media. Like, I say the manosphere is awful, but I don’t readily know another space that could help men with their issues in less toxic ways. How many men have heard “just be yourself” or “work out” to solve their problems? When that’s all you hear, someone telling you something is better than nothing.TL;DR: I think men have the inverse problem. Women tend to have to be their own advocate for their treatment, but get the freedom to be cared for, heard, and have their mental health taken seriously. Men have the “power,” but not the freedom of expression, but a lot of that is the result of a society they created. It’s not so much “fathers need to teach their daughters how to treat men” (because I don’t think men are taught to even let women know that they have feelings, let alone telling their daughters), it’s that we need to allow men to be vulnerable and have people be supportive of them. We all teased the men for their alpha boot camps. Like women’s retreats aren’t weird either? I specifically remember a video of a man going “I am a man” while pushing some barrier and then crying in the man’s arms. He was ridiculed (and I was laughing too, I’m not innocent). Why? Why was that funny. He didn’t fall or do something dumb. He went to a program to find himself in some way, broke through a little, and was punished for it. Walz’s son is currently being hsrrased for crying by both men and women. What man wants to “feel” in that environment?
I mean it is weird that society expects men to treat women a certain, positive way (which I’m on board with) while basically saying woman can treat men however they want tbh. Men can be victims too but nobody gives a fuck. This response is absolute garbage.
Bottom line: men and woman need to treat each other with respect and dignity.
The entire way our society is structured is telling women how to treat men. For too long it told men they can treat women however they want which is why boys need to be taught while girls can learn it from literally everywhere around them. If anything girls should be taught to not let men treat them however they want.
Which society are you describing here? I’d like to move there
Oh, no it is. I’m an agent of chaos.
Whatever you have to tell yourself.
The guy probably meant this in a misogininstic way but theres a reason why theres a male mental health crisis… not only are other people not taught how to treat men, men themselves dont know either
This. So many of our problems would be solved by saying that we love our sons and that we’re proud of them.
Two things that I never heard from my Dad.
And he never heard them from his.
I don’t fucking care. You find your son right now, look him in the eyes, tell him that you love him, and that you are proud of him.
Oh, I know how to treat myself! I like to stand really close to the mirror and say all the things my parents used to say to me.
The day I realized that we don’t even know how to treat each other was a wild day for me. My friend group has been complimenting and building up each other for a while now. It’s amazing the change you’ll see just by having one dude say to another, “Hey, nice shirt my guy!” or something similar.
We opened for a national band tonight so a bunch of my friends were there. After having done this for a few years then reading this thread, I’m amazed to see just how much positive masculinity we had going on. There were compliments, talking up guys to others outside of just being a wingman (there was at least one case of being a wingman, too), lots of bro hugs, and a lot of genuinely happy guys.
It’s a hard thing to get going, but I’m glad we started doing it.
As a father to two girls: When and if it comes to them dating boys (or girls for that matter), yes I’m going to give them some pointers. Like:
Ask them what they want! Everyone’s different.
Be nice to them and expect them to be nice to you.
Talk to them and expect them to talk to you (at least a little bit; everyone’s different).
If you love them, let them know you do.(And if they don’t reciprocate, you can always come back home and regroup.)
(edited for formatting)
