Partial orders can also have maximums
But maximums are only guaranteed to be represented by a unique element in in total orderings.
Edit: also, infinite sets might not necessarily contain an element of their maximum value.
There are demonstrably not infinite humans alive at the same time though.
Okay, so Earth exists. This means for a set volume of space (say about the size of the solar system) there is some positive probability that it contains a planet that is indistinguishable from earth. Let’s assume the universe is infinite. If we can search an arbitrary volume instantly, our probability for finding a duplicate of earth approaches 1 as our volume increases. This means the probability we will never find a duplicate of earth is exactly 0, which means that we will find a duplicate upon searching a finite volume. Since in our hypothetical the search is instant, we can perform this search again, locating a second duplicate of earth. Following this process, we can locate an arbitrary number of perfect earth duplicates in a finite ammount of time. This means that if Earth arose from natural processes in an infinite universe, there are infinitely many exact duplicates of earth with life that includes specimens genetically identical to humans.
This implies that there is no one gayest person in the universe.
Eh.
You’re starting from the assumption that the universe is infinite, and conclude that there is no maximum because the universe is infinite.
Sorry for being this blunt, but that’s intellectually boring.
There are infinities without repetition. Usually the proofs for the stuff you describe assumes finite possibilities.
Please elaborate.
There are an infinite number of numbers between 0 and 1, and yet there is no repetition. Pi and other irrational numbers are infinite yet non-repeating. I wish I knew the name for this kind of thing because I’m sure it’s been discussed in philosophy (a kind of opposite, eternal recurrence, has been discussed a lot).
I don’t think anyone knows enough about the universe to say whether or not there is infinite variety in macroscopic stuff, so I don’t think anything can be ruled out.
I don’t think anyone knows enough about the universe to say whether or not there is infinite variety in macroscopic stuff
There are finitely many particles in the observable universe (that is to say, an infinite number will not fit), and a finite granularity to discern the position of those particles. That means there are finitely many configurations of particles within the volume of the observable universe.
Therefore, there are finitely many discernable things, so in a meaningful sense we can say with confidence that there’s a finite variety of macroscopic things.
Are you suggesting gayness is measured in number of humans?
No, but each individual human is assigned identically one gayness value, therefore the number of values we must sort is equal to the numberpof living humans
But the possible number of outcomes is not limited by the subset of living humans. While we may have a currently highest number that doesn’t mean it IS the highest possible, nor that there is exactly one of them.
It is true that the gayest person currently alive, the gayest person ever in history, and the gayest person who could possibly exist may well exhibit three different levels of gayness; however, I believe that, were one sufficiently determined, it would be possible to find all three.
While we may have a currently highest number that doesn’t mean it IS the highest possible
I would argue you can only be gay if you’re alive, so you only need to compare living people, the theoretical maximum doesn’t matter, only the actual maximum of a finite number.
nor that there is exactly one of them.
Agreed. It might be a shared gold medal.
Find the local maximum by taking the derivative:
dgay dt
Sexuality has multiple axes.
- Intensity
- Orientation (towards Men, Women, Frogs)
- Time (people have been known to have straight periods, gay periods, horny periods, ace periods, etc.)
There are probably others that we relate to kink and paraphilia.
So the very gayest person would have to be specifically defined. Which is gayer: the horniest bisexual or the average-libido gay who has absolute-zero-Kelvin interest in the other sex? Or the gay man who is totally in love with (and exclusively devoted to) his hubby and has been this way for fifty years?
The gay agenda’s got axes now?
Turning the frogs gay and then giving them axes!!
And they have my bow
turning the frogs axesual
🪓🐸
Comment sections like this make me feel like I’m in a room full of crazy people, and or I eventually start to question my own sanity.
I mean sure, a spectrum is defined by at least 2 most extreme points (depending on the amount of dimensions). But like, what’s stopping us form mapping two or more people to either extreme? Why can’t 2 people be equally most gay or equally least gay?
If you limit the resolution of the gayness measurement, sure. You could define least gay as 0 and most gay as 5, then you have millions of people on 5. But there are infinitely many real numbers, and if there were some theoretical 100% accurate way to measure “gayness” (whatever that means) at “infinite resolution”, the chance of two people being equally most gay is theoretically 0. On the other hand of the spectrum, it’d be impossible to be ENTIRELY not gay at all, so even if millions of people are very close to 0, one would be the closest.
I’m way overthinking this lol
I mean it has to be a limit, a person can only be so gay. Like even if we define a spectrum as far and wide as we like. Let’s say height for example. That’s an infinite scale, but a human will never be a light year in height, it’s just not physically possible. And once there’s one human to reach the highest physical limit, what’s stopping someone else from also reaching that point?
The probability of someone reaching that physical limit is 0.
But we know the tallest person in the world and possibly the tallest person in history. I’m sure if we can calculate a gayness metric we can also find these values, at the very least once our metric is define.
a person can only be so gay
I knew a lesbian couple but one is now a trans man who transitioned a few years after they married eachother. I like to joke that they are so gay they went all the way around to being straight again.
Not only that. What if there are multiple aspects to what gay defines. Is it just how much they like the same sex, or also how many fake stories they post online? One can score a 5 on one, and a 4 on the other.
The spectrum being multidimensional doesn’t stop us from maxing out every metric of what’s physically possible.
Number theory suggests that by whatever metric it’s determined, there’s bound to be an infinitesimal difference between two measurements. Observation leads to significant figures, not reality
Well that depends on if gayness is a continuous or discrete quantity. If gay comes in very small but distinct indivisible units, the minimum could certainly be just 1 of these units.
Still, the upper range is likely to be unbound.
I don’t think there’s such a thing as a discrete gay… number and the sofar unmentioned bi spectrum implies a distributed or Cartesian system of expression
Considering bisexuality and demi sexuality I suspect that attraction is what we are measuring, not just gayness. Perhaps even attraction along two dimensions - romantic and sexual. This has interesting implications considering that gender itself exists as a spectrum with multiple dimensions of its own, at very least expression and identity, perhaps sex should be incorporated too which further complicates matters…
Nonetheless, I don’t believe that any of this precludes our units of attraction from being discrete… I will concede that it’s probably more likely, if there is some kind of fundamental attraction particle, that it has comparable properties to the photon.
I’m considering that each of these attraction particles (furthermore referred to as attractons) exists as excitations in the gender/sexuality field. Thanks to wave particle duality we can have a quanta of attraction with continuous possible amounts of attraction associated with each - just like the photon’s variable energy.
Planck gayness.
Avogaybros constant
I am 250 units gay
I think that could be possible. If sexuality were multi-dimensional and “gayness” was just a 1-D collapse of a higher dimensional space then you could pick a vector in the higher dimensional space to represent gayness, such that a few points at the extreme happen to have the same dot-product with that vector.
But then you would be defining gayness around the gymnastics of setting that up instead of something you are actually trying to estimate about people on that spectrum.
In room full of pedants and full on autists… you’re gonna have sanity issues…
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Since the real numbers are a spectrum there exists one number which is the largest
Not comparable. There are finite gay people but infinite real numbers
Found him again
You have ignored the possibility that even though there are finite gay people, among those finite gays one of them might be infini-gay.
How is a spectrum supposed to not have a total ordering? To me saying sth is a spectrum always invokes an image of being able to map to/represent the property as an interval (unbounded or bounded) which should always give it a total ordering right?
How is a spectrum supposed to not have a total ordering?
I’m pretty sure a spectrum is always totally ordered. You can’t say “this point on the spectrum holds no relation to that point”, because then it’s not a spectrum.
Only 1D spectrums. In 2D spectrums there’s only a maximum relative to a specific 1D projection
It all comes down to definitions. First off, Totally Ordered is a property of the function that compares two elements not the set you are talking about. most sets have total orderings (if the axiom of choice is true then all sets have a total ordering). With Fields and vectorspaces there is the concept of a totally ordered Field which is essentially when the total ordering is compatible with it’s field operations (e.g the set of complex numbers has many total orderings, but the field of complex numbers is not an ordered field).
So it really depends on how we define the sexuality spectrum. So long as it’s simply a set then it has a total ordering. But if we allow us to add and multiply the gays then depending on how we define those functions it could be impossible to order the gay field.
Also a total ordering doesn’t mean that there is exactly 1 maximal element (it would need to be a strict total ordering to have that property), so we can all be the gayest.
There could also be an elite group of the gayest people on earth. Or it could just be 2 gay lords.
I think that same as you can’t get an arbitrarily accurate measurement of length, since at sub-atomic scales you can no longer perfectly define where exactly an object ends (and eventually you’ll reach planck scales and quantum foam and the task becomes even more impossible), it might not be possible to measure gayness with enough accuracy to decide between the most gay contenders. Let’s be real - gayness is probably extremely fuzzy if you look into it closely.
Gay field… A word I never imagined will encounter in my life
Also the definition of ‘gay’ and ‘gayest’ is poorly defined. This assumes that gay is some sort of scalar, where in reality it’s a projection from a multidimensional ‘queerspace’ that can change the appearance of the spectrum wildly depending on the methodology the one projecting uses.
The color wheel, for instance
A colour wheel is not even partially ordered, I don’t think. There is a relation between some colours on the wheel but it’s not an ordering.
You can impose a partial ordering on it. HSL uses a hue angle. If we assume full saturation and lightness and pick an arbitrary direction to be positive, there’s your partial ordering. But not total ordering, there is no most clockwise color.
Total ordering doesn’t mean that the order is strict though. You can have multiple individuals with the same level of gayness.
Total ordering means all elements are comparable (=< would be a suitable relation), not that all elements have their individual rank (< relation).
A spectrum implies that the set is totally ordered but not necessarily strictly ordered.
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A spectrum can have multiple dimensions, but that might not matter if you’re only comparing in a single dimension?
Ig thats where most of my confusion comes from, to me saying sth is a “spectrum” always evokes sth along the lines of
gay <--------------------> straight(ie one dimensional) with things mapping into this interval. But ig if you also include more than one axis in your meaning of “spectrum” there wouldn’t be as straight forward of an ordering for any given “spectrum”. + Like @saigot@lemmy.ca said technically even the 1 dimensional spectrum can have more than one order and the “obvious” one is just obvious because we are used to it from another context not because its specifically relevant to this situation.Gynophilia, androphilia, romantic attraction, sexual attraction etc. absolutely makes everything complicated yeah. And then there’s cultural stuff and minor personal preferences. There’s no real end to how many axis you could legitimately argue for including in a sexuality chart.
There’s still gay people on Xitter? Why? It’s full of Nazis.
There’s 8 billion people. I’m pretty sure gay nazis exist.
My aunt has gay nazi neighbors, they are real.
Ernst Röhm was an actual gay Nazi
plenty of gay furry artists around on that platform making lots of gay furry porn
Every large social platform has groups of people who hate each other, even lemmy. They just all have ways to keep only showing people the posts from groups they support (through defederation and only looking at specific communities, or twitter/youtube/tiktok/facebook’s algorithms, etc)
I think the comparison with Lemmy is moot, since Lemmy (or the Fediverse as a whole) isn’t owned by one centralized entity. Twitter quite literally has a Nazi as its owner. Sure, progressive people still have tools at their disposal to be able to use Twitter, but I think it makes sense to question why we should use such a platform.
Now I’m wondering what the gayest gay person would look like.
Do you not own any mirrors?
Lol, gottem
It can’t be me, I’m just kinda gay
Geraffes are dumb.
For the unaware: https://old.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/8aqjh/awww_this_is_just_too_sad_pic/c08pp5z/
That post is a trip. 42,000+ comments, but only 38 comments outside of the geraffe comment/replies.
Hi, it’s me.
hello, who’s me?
You
you?
no, me
oh, me
edit: yeah me, but who’s me?!?!?
you’re you.
I thought Smith won most gay?
“Being gay isn’t a choice, it’s a competition. And I’m winning.”
There can be only one!
Awsome logic in the original original post.
On a totally unrelated note: whats the biggest number between 0 and 1 (0<x<1)?
The set of all living humans is finite, so (if sexuality is totally ordered) there is a gayest human. Edit:though they may not necessarily be unique.
There are more than 0 people currently the gayest.
Wouldn’t it be like 9.99 into infinity? 🤔 and since the human population (at least currently living) is not infinete, then at some 9.999999 there wouldn’t be anyone with a higher value? (I don’t know math)
0.9999… is equal to 1, so no
no, not really. In engineering math, sure but theoretical math it’s not
0.999… = 1 in theory also.
Otherwise, there exists a δ such that 1 - δ = 0.999…
Then, the δ should have a first nonzero digit. Let us say it is in the millionth placd. But then, 0.999… cannot have a 9 in the millionth place.
Even in theoretical math, 0.999 repeating ends up being exactly equal to 1. In fact, any terminating decimal can be rewritten in a similar manner. For example, 0.25 is exactly equal to 0.24999999 repeating
It is in theoretical math as well. I just woke up and don’t know the proof by heart but there is a proof for 0.99 repeating being true equal to 1.
Or a total preorder
This misconception is also why— for the love of fucking god— people need to stop calling autism a “spectrum”. It doesn’t matter if it is one, what matters is what people think that means. There is no “extremely autistic” or “a little bit autistic”— those people are referring to cognitive ability. Those kinds of people don’t know the difference between autism and general intellectual disability. Autism as we “know” it is a fucking disaster of an understanding, and I will die long before we can get people to think correctly about it.
Also, the problem with people really, super wanting to be “autistic” because it makes them “special”, not knowing that autism is a full-neurological phenomenon and not just “you think different”. That’s another huge reason why nobody actually knows what it is and that, yes, it does in fact have a finite list of symptoms/traits. x_x
Source: autistic, introspective and self-understanding, and rational
Gay Olympics when?
What would gay Olympics look like? Like this?
yay homophobia…
How?
God, your profile picture is ominous.
