I’m not sure if this is the right community for this question, but it says “no stupid question” so here goes. I’m an Israeli who now lives in the US, but I am considering permanently residing in the US or elsewhere (perhaps somewhere in Europe or Canada) because I’ve become kinda disillusioned with Israel for a variety of reasons (the war in Gaza being one of them, the erosion of democracy by Likud being another, and etc) but is that cowardly to leave? Should I go back and try to change society or should I just leave for good? Thanks for your time.

  • jet@hackertalks.com
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    4
    ·
    10 months ago

    This is a deeply personal choice. Don’t let other people decide for you. Think about how you want to live for the next 5, 10,15 years and what you want to spend that time doing.

  • Tiger Jerusalem@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    3
    ·
    edit-2
    10 months ago

    I’ll go against the grain and give you a straight answer.

    Yes. You should leave Israel and never go back.

    You owe nothing to your country. If you have the possibility to live in a good European country, do it. You’re no martyr. You’re not billionaire rich. And unless you’re a really high rank offcial, an important politician, or want to sacrifice your entire life to a cause, you have no reason to waste your short life in pain.

    We’re in a silly blue rock between a billion trillion systems, none of which care about you. Your existence is not even a blimp in the context of the universe. You’re not important at all. So why waste and suffer on behalf of a thing you have absolutely no control? Be happy, be comfortable, and make those around you happy and comfortable.

    Life is pretty hard already, there’s no need to make it harder. Go and be happy.

    Quick addendum: I’m not saying that because its Israel. I’m saying that in the context of any country. You owe nothing to it, a piece of land that you manage to be birthed on by being really lucky or unlucky. If you can rectify that and move to a better country to you, you should do it instead of suffering.

      • Orbituary@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        10 months ago

        To add to their point, I live in the USA. I speak 4 languages. My girlfriend is Mexican and has dual citizen status in Mexico and Chile. The US is fucked, but not in the same ways exactly. That being said, I’m ashamed of our behavior every day.

        The USA is not a moral northstar nor is it a place to aspire to live unless you’re in dire straights.

        We plan to move to Chile at some point. I can maintain my US job.

        Fuck false loyalty to nationality. Live for yourself and your loved ones. Everything else is farse. Life has no borders.

  • morphballganon@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    10 months ago

    Is leaving Israel a good idea? Yes.

    Is the US a good place to move to? That’s a more interesting question. We have some issues too.

    • Scott@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      10 months ago

      Don’t forget about even more issues in a bunch of smaller places, because every state and local gov is fucked at some level

  • Maggoty@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    10 months ago

    That’s a question only you can answer. Answering these questions might help you make a decision though.

    Do you think Israel’s future is worth fighting for?

    Do you have an ability to leave again in the future?

    Can you legally vote in Israeli elections without being in Israel?

    Are you giving up personal opportunities that are important to you?

    Asking other people outright is just going to tell you what other people want you to do.

  • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    10 months ago

    So of course in the end it should come down to what you want to do and where you see yourself living a happier life, and not what people on the internet think you should do. However, purely from a “making the world a better place” perspective, I’d recommend not returning. I get the idea of trying to change society from within, but frankly I think Israel in its current state is beyond saving. The sense of invincibility, among other issues, is too much for simple activism to fix; the country as a whole needs the Nazi Germay treatment (the de-Nazification part, not the war part). At least by not being in Israel you make sure your tax money and children aren’t used in genocide.

    I repeat, do what you feel is best for you, but to directly answer your question your absence does more to weaken the Israeli Apartheid apparatus than your presence. Do vote though; definitely vote.

  • oakey66@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    10 months ago

    As a Russian Jew who fled the Russia in the 1980s, my family moved for our safety and opportunity. Countries don’t deserve reverence just for being countries. We can be proud of our heritage without having to show allegiance to a nation state. Especially, when it is using our ethnicity/religion to brutally wipe out and massacre a civilian population.

    Just do what is best for you and your family.

  • recursive_recursion [they/them]@programming.dev
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    10 months ago

    to ask questions even while anxious is something to be commended on especially since you aren’t sure about what the right choices could be

    I think it’s actually brave to ask for help especially in difficult situations such as the one you’re in

    “The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane.” - Marcus Aurelius


    Should I go back and try to change society or should I just leave for good?

    This brings back memories from a well known anime called Code Geass where 2 of the characters have a debate on whether change can either be born from within the system or if it must be made externally

    • Lelouch vs Suzaku

    Personally I’d say it’s external but I don’t know if this is closest to the truth of the perfect solution

    From recent historical records like Hong Kong and Ukraine🌻 vs Russia

    • brain drain is a real thing and it seems that to continue living under oppression and subjugation is probably the worst if not wrong decision as you’d be unintentionally sacrificing yourself for a corrupt authority

    change is probably a mix of both internal and external

    • but to continue living in an state of eroding democracy might be more detrimental than benefical to most
    • as I’m writing this, I find it funny that this could be said the same for the fediverse here
    • ashkenaziisraeli@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      10 months ago

      Thanks for this response. Israel also is facing AFAIK a slower brain drain because Israelis with education and money tend to move.

  • Microplasticbrain@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    10 months ago

    My family left Iran before I was born and I’m grateful they did. What could we have done to change the country from within? Unfortunately nothing.

  • edric@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    10 months ago

    You don’t owe anything to a country just because you were born there, unless you owe taxes, which is inevitable lol. I left my home country for better opportunities and (hopefully) a better life. For most people, uprooting yourself and moving to another country for good is a once-in-a-lifetime chance/opportunity, so take that into account. Good luck.

  • stanleytweedle@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    10 months ago

    Should I go back and try to change society or should I just leave for good?

    “God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference”

    I can’t tell you what to do but I can tell you that getting out of a bad situation you had no hand in creating doesn’t make you a coward, it just means you’re rational.

  • magnetosphere@fedia.io
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    10 months ago

    Regardless of your decision, I think you deserve credit just for seriously considering the issues involved.

  • Altima NEO@lemmy.zip
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    10 months ago

    There’s certainly nothing “cowardly” about leaving. Live where you feel comfortable being. Wherever you feel happy.

  • Jackthelad@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    10 months ago

    Yeah, this isn’t something that any of us can decide for you. And any views will be clouded by how people think on the Israel-Hamas conflict.

    • ashkenaziisraeli@lemmy.worldOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      10 months ago

      Ironically I’m firmly in the middle on the conflict compared to a lot of what I’ve seen from the online left, but compared to most israeli policymakers, I am far left. It’s weird.

  • Chef_Boyardee@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    0
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    10 months ago

    I want to tell you to not listen to these comments, but all of them tell you to decide for yourself. Well, you asked the question, so I will answer.

    Yes, and move to Palestine.