- cross-posted to:
- engineeringmemes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- engineeringmemes@lemmy.world
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Engineers now: We built an airport, 9 years behind schedule and at 233% the cost.
We are rebuilding a train station at (currently) 366% the planned cost and an estimated delivery time of 200% the original estimate, into rock that might swell when in contact with water and heave the station out of the ground, in order to decrease the station’s capacity by 17%
This is not the engineers fault though.
It is highly political projects, politicians offloaded their old friends and competitiors onto the boeards and other functions and in the case of the airport major planning was undertaken by a guy who is a technical drawer and not an engineer.
Most of these fuck ups could have been prevent, if the project management was done by project managers with an engineering background and if the owners side would have been represented by peoplewith a technical backgrounds.
Source: i have worked in civil engineering for public projects. We wasted 50% of the time explaining Politicians and MBA bros C-levels why they can’t start by building the roof and why replanning half the stuff is a bad idea, when we are already on the market with bids for contractors.
estimates are just that, a guess
For healthy working relationships and solid infrastructure you under-promise and over-deliver.
For maximal profit and sustainable business models you over-promise and under-deliver.
The company that under-promises won’t win the bid, though. Unfortunately the norm now is to overpromise, and then squeeze as many extra fees and concessions out of the project as possible.
There’s also a culture of contractors vs engineers where limits willingness to work together to find solutions. “not my fault”.
Exactly, hence the root of the problem the original meme is getting at…
Well sure that’s fundamentally true, but really doesn’t give any sort of accurate picture of how estimates are done any more than “humans are just collections of cells” does, and anybody who does estimates without using some sort of data as the basis and is purely guessing is doing it wrong as fuck.
It’s not like we have no idea how long certain tasks have taken in the past, or what affects how long something will take.
I can’t even build python scripts…
You can lie on Internet.
I can’t even lie on the internet. I’m worthless.
Programmers mostly aren’t really engineers and that’s ok. I don’t want to be an engineer.
I personally disagree. Took 3 years of Electrical Engineering courses in college but finished with a B.S in Computer Science. Both are valid engineering disciplines, the only thing lacking on the computer side are standardized licensing tests and an oversight body. Software engineers have to build software that can affect life and death too, but somehow we don’t have as much regulation in the US which is super odd to me.
What makes something engineering vs not? Personally what I do doesn’t feel like engineering because I imagine engineering as being about following a particular process and doing things in a very cautious and structured way, where programming is normally way more chaotic.
Your notion of an engineer is correct in a wide sense
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engineer
The fact that you feel programming is not that makes me sad. But likely dependent on what software and what you work with. For example, if you build software for NASA or Baxter and dialysis machines and the likes, you’ll get fired fast for not being structured. Working for Elon Musk and Twitter… Well…
I don’t think it has to be a sad thing. Without that sort of structure you can be more imaginative, which has many advantages. Again, I don’t want to be an engineer, I feel that would suck all the joy out of it and just isn’t my style. That isn’t to say an engineering approach to programming doesn’t exist or isn’t useful/necessary in some cases, but I would say it isn’t the norm and probably shouldn’t be.
I personally think it’s a bit of a fallacy to equal structure with less creativity.
Look at Calatrava https://duckduckgo.com/?q=calatrava&t=fpas&iax=images&ia=images
Further, you can’t design something like the Burj Khalifa without creativity
Maybe the line goes where you are risking peoples life or not, maybe somewhere else. It still makes me sad that you equal programming with chaos. But that is very context driven. The drive for new software, new interfaces, new tech overall naturally breeds less oversight and less structure naturally ofc. But it doesn’t have to be that way, nor should it be if you ask me
You wanna hear a joke? American infrastructure jobs.
Do you… do you think we don’t have Civil, Mechanical, Electrical, or Computer Engineers anymore?
deleted by creator
Comp Sci is not engineering. Programming is not engineering. I don’t mean this in an elitist way, it just flat-out doesn’t fit with other engineering fields. It’s firmly in the T area of STEM, not the E.
some countries actually define what an engineer is much like doctors.
You mean “I ask ChatGPT how to write two line Python scripts”?
Software engineering is just what any “engineering” field would be if they didn’t have standards. We have some geniuses and we have some idiots.
Mechanical engineers, civil engineers, electrical engineers, etc. are often forced to adhere to some sort of standard. It means something to say “I’m a civil engineer” (in most developed nations). You are genuinely liable in some instances for your work. You have to adhere to codes and policies and formats.
Software engineering is the wild west right now. No rules. No standards. And in most industries we may never need a standard because software rarely kills.
However, software is becoming increasingly important in our daily lives. There will likely come a day wherein similar standards take precedence and the name “software engineer” is only allowed to those who adhere to those standards and have the proper certs/licenses. I believe Canada already does this.
Software engineers would be responsible for critical software, e.g: ensuring phones connecting to an emergency operator don’t fail, building pacemakers, securing medical records, etc. I know some of these tasks already have “experts” behind them. But I don’t think software has any licensing/governing.
Directly opposed to “engineering” would be the grunt work which I do.
There are definitely quality certifications for software. Plenty of govt acquisitions contracts require such certifications. We probably aren’t far from laws or executive mandates which require such things tbh
Hey, that’s not fair! Sometimes I write 3 lines.
Comments don’t count
You mean “I ask ChatGPT how to write two line Python scripts”?
