I saw some people on Reddit discussing whether someone was being orientalist, and I agreed they were simply by using the phrase “zen-like concentration”. I’m not offended by them using this term, I just find it stupid. “Zen-like” has absolutely no meaning, but gives an air of eastern spirituality and mysticism. I personally think you should only be able to use that phrase if you can give a detailed and verifiable explanation about the differences between zen-like concentration, huayan-like concentration, mahasthabir nikaya-like concentration, and chan-like concentration, as well as recognize that the last one is exactly the same as zen.
And why is it only ever “zen-like”? I’m sure everyone would find it strange if Asians suddenly started to use the terms “seventh day adventism-like” or “independent fundamentalist baptist-like” to refer to the elements of American culture they find exotic.
You can’t call it zen unless it’s from the zen region of Japan. Otherwise it’s just sparkling concentration.
Honestly I prefer Zen-like crackers to Zenz-like crackers.
hippies can be cool. it’s hit or miss.
I feel like it’s a short and convenient loaner word to describe calm/focus/concentration at this point.
I was going to talk shit about OP not understanding etymology but the example sentence on Miriam Webster for “zen like” was about Obama so now I agree with OP.
(ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻
Ahem, don’t you know drone bombing brown kids and increasing deportations while claiming to stand for freedom, progress, and dignity for all is in fact the epitome of zen?
Apparently some guy named DT Suzuki introduced a modernized version Zen to the West as like a secular buddhism in the 50s. So westerners see “Zen” as like the meditation and the folk wisdom bits of buddhism.
i think you get “zen” because it’s so much shorter and convenient than “meditative”. there’s definitely some magical overlap with midcentury martial arts, especially with kyudo being called “zen archery” sometimes.
was buddhism exported like yoga was? i remember somebody tried to have a struggle session about crackers doing yoga but nothing came of it because that was given rather than plundered.
And why is it only ever “zen-like”? I’m sure everyone would find it strange if Asians suddenly started to use the terms “seventh day adventism-like” or “independent fundamentalist baptist-like” to refer to the elements of American culture they find exotic.
there’s a bunch of japanese media that treats christian symbols and syncretic mysticism the way that you get norse gods in marvel or whatever. that seems kinda normal and maybe there should be more of it.
I think you are not taking into account that Zen Buddhism has become a popular thing in the West. It’s basically quick and easy Buddhism without all the work and just saying things are zen is more like a shortcut than it is a derogatory term
it’s not meant to be derogatory, but the lazy shortcut is orientalist
if Asians suddenly started to use the terms “seventh day adventism-like” or “independent fundamentalist baptist-like” to refer to the elements of American culture they find exotic
oh please do fuck yeah lmao. unironically a great bit
“Oh man we went to the amusement park, had burgers and to top it all off we then went to this demolition derby! The whole day was packed with evangelical-like action!”
It’s the same as crackers using karma wrong.
Crackers really love using words from other cultures wrong.
you can’t say zen unless you play zenyatta in overwatch
the “seventh day adventism” example would only make sense if seventh day adventists were known for their emphasis on meditation. Its kind of a cringe loaner word but idk if I’d go so far as to say it’s completely meaningless like the examples you give, or outright orientalist
I’ve seen people use it in a context that has nothing to do with meditation or calm. The example I saw was about bartending. Maybe it’s not always orientalist, but I think it can often be. For example, I once saw some place describe the Japanese word “genki”, which means to be well or in good health, as being a zen-like state of mind. At that point, you may as well call it a “seventh day adventism-like state of mind”, because both terms are meaningless in this context.
“genki” … as being [in] a zen-like state of mind
Right now I am in a genki (Zen-like) state of pissing myself laughing
As the Zen masters (some type of martial art I think) of Chi… Kor… no, Japan would put it, this is cringe sugiru (def. “to be in excess; to be un-Zen-like”)
yeah saying genki = zen seems actually orientalist to me lol, in addition to being meaningless drivel
Maybe a little, I mean it is dumb but getting bothered by it enough to make a post would only really make sense if you are Buddhist I think
I don’t see why I need to be bothered about something greatly in order to make a post. I’m at work, so it’s not like I’ve got anything better to do. Boss makes a dollar, I make a dime, that’s why I shitpost on company time.
Braver than the troops
To me the most interesting thing about actual Zen is the stick.
In Zen Buddhism, the keisaku (Japanese: 警策, Chinese: 香板, xiāng bǎn; kyōsaku in the Soto school) is a flat wooden stick or slat used during periods of meditation to remedy sleepiness or lapses of concentration. This is accomplished through a strike or series of strikes, usually administered on the meditator’s back and shoulders in the muscular area between the shoulder and the spine. The keisaku itself is thin and somewhat flexible; strikes with it, though they may cause momentary sting if performed vigorously, are not injurious.
Yet no one ever calls being slapped with a stick a zen-like experience.
Some in this thread said…
I feel like it’s a short and convenient loaner word to describe calm/focus/concentration at this point.
I’m American that’s how I think most Americans certainly look at the word/concept. And most Americans never bother to learn anything and have no curiosity so they do and say things without thinking and without caring.
Well I think we should change the definition so that it means being hit with a stick in an unwelcome manner.
“wow this calm or focused thing reminds me of this rly specific kind of japanese zen buddhism which is the second most powerful out of all buddhisms after the dalai lama ones”
i let it slide for now
deleted by creator
I dunno. The term is a bit silly but i cant be fucked to care one way or the other, honestly.
