Problem is that Trump hasn’t actually been convicted of insurrection, which is the necessary legal basis for such a ruling.
Citation needed. Maine’s Secretary of State fully addressed this exact topic. There is no language in the constitution or the amendment that says they must have been charged or convicted of insurrection and the SoS makes a pretty solid argument that she’s bound by her duties to make a call on the matter. She used the official Jan 6th hearings as an evidence-based proceeding while acknowledging that it was curated with intent and needs to be put in that context. She did stay her decision until higher courts ruled on the matter.
My gut instinct was the same as yours actually. But it’s not about my instinct, it’s about the interpretation of the law as written and the record of events of J6 when applied in that specific context.
Making an honest judgment call referencing the case law, constitution, state law, and precedent and then staying the decision to not go into effect until higher courts can rule on it is, despite my gut instinct, exactly the right call.
We all know this will end up at the Supreme Court, including the people who did their due diligence to write their best legal opinions.
This interpretation of the law is completely is completely absurd, and it will obviously be overturned once it gets to the supreme court. You can read the 14th amendment clause yourself and see in black and white what cases it applies to. It’s worded in a very specific way:
Just trying to be clear before I respond, are you saying it doesn’t apply to the office of the president as the court initially ruled before it going to the Colorado Supreme Court? The Maine Secretary of State addressed that argument as if it were kind of nonsense and hinged on an interpretation of the word office inconsistent with the aim of the amendment in its context, missing the forest for the trees in terms of intent.
This argument takes wild and unprecedented liberties with the interpretation of the law. It’s basically ignoring what the law actually says, and claims that it was written wrong. That’s an absurd claim to make. And coupled with the fact that Trump hasn’t actually been convicted of anything, this amounts to a complete farce. There’s very clearly no sound legal basis for any of this, and it’s obvious to anybody who’s able to look at this objectively.
Is that a yes that you’re trying to use the “POTUS isn’t an office” ruling from before it was overturned? Because that one did seem absurd to me. Since the amendment was designed to prevent confederates from taking power, it was silly on its face to assume it wouldn’t apply to the president, a leap in logic and sound judgment only made possible by hyper-fixating on the word “office.” Especially when it contains a provision to remove the disqualification by a 2/3 vote, but not a provision to remove it if you win the presidency.
Sounds like you’re taking wild and unprecedented liberties with your resume acting like your backseat driver legal instincts are better than the Colorado Supreme Court’s legal decisions…people who I assume are far more educated, qualified, and experienced than you.
The amendment actually says “…engaged in ainsurrection or rebellion…” Trump did, factually speaking, engage in insurrection. The plain text of the amendment does not say anything about a criminal conviction for insurrection, and being ineligible for office holding is not a criminal penalty. Seems pretty plainly like you’re the one taking liberties to me.
If you genuinely believe all that then you must also believe that this argument will stand up in the Supreme Court. Factually speaking, Trump has never been convicted of engaging in insurrection. That’s the real world we live in. In any case, if you don’t understand that this is a political prosecution that delegitimizes the very basis of trust in elections then you better buckle up because you’re in for some very exciting times ahead.
It’s an investigation of a politician so politics are going to be involved. People are making it out to be purely political in nature, but he did very clearly commit crimes. He was caught on tape committing felonies…people that call it political don’t seem to have had that part sink in with them yet.
He. Was. Caught. On. Tape. Committing. Felonies.
Address that fact if you want to appear as if your judgment in the matter isn’t compromised by your politics and your bias.
Haven’t really heard a roadmap from you folks about what a non-political prosecution of Trump would look like. So, seriously, how could we prosecute Trump for the crimes he committed in a way that was not political? From where I sit, people have been treating him with kid gloves because they’re so worried about appearing political. It’s insane to hear people complain about a two tiered justice system in his case when he is plainly benefitting from that reality. Anyone else would’ve been in jail a LONG time ago.
I don’t pretend to know what the Supreme Court will do with the case, but I do know that the trust in them to do the right thing is at an all-time low in this country. They’ve been in a legitimacy crisis ever since overturning Roe v. Wade and their failures to disclose financial conflicts of interest have only made it worse.
You seem like you have a lot to sort out, best of luck with that.
Citation needed. Maine’s Secretary of State fully addressed this exact topic. There is no language in the constitution or the amendment that says they must have been charged or convicted of insurrection and the SoS makes a pretty solid argument that she’s bound by her duties to make a call on the matter. She used the official Jan 6th hearings as an evidence-based proceeding while acknowledging that it was curated with intent and needs to be put in that context. She did stay her decision until higher courts ruled on the matter.
https://www.maine.gov/sos/news/2023/Decision in Challenge to Trump Presidential Primary Petitions.pdf
If you don’t see the problem with this line of argument, then really don’t know what else to tell you.
My gut instinct was the same as yours actually. But it’s not about my instinct, it’s about the interpretation of the law as written and the record of events of J6 when applied in that specific context.
Making an honest judgment call referencing the case law, constitution, state law, and precedent and then staying the decision to not go into effect until higher courts can rule on it is, despite my gut instinct, exactly the right call.
We all know this will end up at the Supreme Court, including the people who did their due diligence to write their best legal opinions.
This interpretation of the law is completely is completely absurd, and it will obviously be overturned once it gets to the supreme court. You can read the 14th amendment clause yourself and see in black and white what cases it applies to. It’s worded in a very specific way:
Only thing that’s been accomplished here is to bolster Trump’s claims that there’s a political witch hunt against him and to galvanize his supporters.
Just trying to be clear before I respond, are you saying it doesn’t apply to the office of the president as the court initially ruled before it going to the Colorado Supreme Court? The Maine Secretary of State addressed that argument as if it were kind of nonsense and hinged on an interpretation of the word office inconsistent with the aim of the amendment in its context, missing the forest for the trees in terms of intent.
This argument takes wild and unprecedented liberties with the interpretation of the law. It’s basically ignoring what the law actually says, and claims that it was written wrong. That’s an absurd claim to make. And coupled with the fact that Trump hasn’t actually been convicted of anything, this amounts to a complete farce. There’s very clearly no sound legal basis for any of this, and it’s obvious to anybody who’s able to look at this objectively.
Is that a yes that you’re trying to use the “POTUS isn’t an office” ruling from before it was overturned? Because that one did seem absurd to me. Since the amendment was designed to prevent confederates from taking power, it was silly on its face to assume it wouldn’t apply to the president, a leap in logic and sound judgment only made possible by hyper-fixating on the word “office.” Especially when it contains a provision to remove the disqualification by a 2/3 vote, but not a provision to remove it if you win the presidency.
Sounds like you’re taking wild and unprecedented liberties with your resume acting like your backseat driver legal instincts are better than the Colorado Supreme Court’s legal decisions…people who I assume are far more educated, qualified, and experienced than you.
The amendment actually says “…engaged in ainsurrection or rebellion…” Trump did, factually speaking, engage in insurrection. The plain text of the amendment does not say anything about a criminal conviction for insurrection, and being ineligible for office holding is not a criminal penalty. Seems pretty plainly like you’re the one taking liberties to me.
If you genuinely believe all that then you must also believe that this argument will stand up in the Supreme Court. Factually speaking, Trump has never been convicted of engaging in insurrection. That’s the real world we live in. In any case, if you don’t understand that this is a political prosecution that delegitimizes the very basis of trust in elections then you better buckle up because you’re in for some very exciting times ahead.
It’s an investigation of a politician so politics are going to be involved. People are making it out to be purely political in nature, but he did very clearly commit crimes. He was caught on tape committing felonies…people that call it political don’t seem to have had that part sink in with them yet.
He. Was. Caught. On. Tape. Committing. Felonies.
Address that fact if you want to appear as if your judgment in the matter isn’t compromised by your politics and your bias.
Haven’t really heard a roadmap from you folks about what a non-political prosecution of Trump would look like. So, seriously, how could we prosecute Trump for the crimes he committed in a way that was not political? From where I sit, people have been treating him with kid gloves because they’re so worried about appearing political. It’s insane to hear people complain about a two tiered justice system in his case when he is plainly benefitting from that reality. Anyone else would’ve been in jail a LONG time ago.
I don’t pretend to know what the Supreme Court will do with the case, but I do know that the trust in them to do the right thing is at an all-time low in this country. They’ve been in a legitimacy crisis ever since overturning Roe v. Wade and their failures to disclose financial conflicts of interest have only made it worse.
You seem like you have a lot to sort out, best of luck with that.