Used to? Didn’t like carrying heavy weights and stepping into every trap?

So democracy to you is when a state does SocDem welfare policies?

I would understand if, as a purported socialist, you wanted to tie democracy to communism, as bourgeois democracy democratizes only the superstrucure, and even that one just partially. But that tie-in would clearly be hard to accept if you wanted to argue for USSR being democratic, as it was far from a stateless classless moneyless society.

Still - why social democracy? Why welfare? It’s kinda of a weird choice, unless you tie the idea of democracy to the liberal-fascist “will of the people” concept. But that would imply very bad things about your views, friend.

There are multiple ways to interpret this. I have no interest in guessing.

State your point.

Shame, I really liked trolling your ass.

Time for arguments was around a day ago, but you was too overflowing with sass to engage. Davel was more coherent, so I wrestled with him until he realized he can’t really prove there was a genocide and left.

Bye, you silly liberal. I still have to discover if there’s any difference between positions of you lot and of an average TV-addled Russian boomer. The lack of class analysis in explaining Russia’s behavior is your bane, together with tankie brainrot.

No pwease don’t caww me wibewal!!! You don’t know what it meanf!!! Get a downdoot you meanie!!!

Please explain me how you’re not a lib, you will get even more upvotes for this for sure.

we

You’re alone in the room calling people NPCs online. Get a life you silly lib.

Define deez nuts, lib

Tankies don’t exist, don’t you know? There’s no second half between which an enlightened centrist can position themselves. I am the furthest left there is, and you are a liberal.

Was USSR a democracy under Stalin? Are Russia and China imperialist?

jokes on you I’m into that 😜

Yogthos is not defending Western/liberal values, he is pointing out the hypocrisy.

Appeal to hypocrisy is one of the lowest, filthiest of arguments, used by trolls, propagandists and hacks of all allegiances. You didn’t make him look much better.

Russia is not predominantly an imperialist state

Russian war against Ukraine is a textbook example of an imperialist war - a plunderous attempt to cut up and consume, annex a smaller neighbor in order to expand the sphere of influence of Russian capital, to turn back the losses of the 2010s, when Ukraine escaped, though not unscathed, the clutches of the Russian bourgeoisie in favor of apparently more appealing clutches of the US and EU capital.

Russia is also a colonial power, which you seem to disregard in favor of the following:

Russia is an interesting case: it has already liberated itself from the post-Soviet “shock therapy” neocolonizers.

Positioning the victory of Russian owning class in the act of class warfare which was the shock therapy, calling it and the following consolidation of power by the national bourgeoisie a “liberation” is just disgusting. It was class war, first and foremost. It could give birth to a neocolonial relationship, if it “succeeded” - but it did not. It was a boost for the capital class, which then metastasized into the current liberal turned fascist regime.

It’s also funny to me how you completely disregard oppressor part, which is as important as the imperialist part.

In a word, no. In a few more words, support for Russia is only a partial, temporary, tactical one

So, lesser evilism? Russia is definitely a smaller evil, but I’m not sure how it’s a lesser one. I might be biased though, given Russia’s desire to eradicate me.

It’s trying to resolve the genocidal attacks on the people of the Donbas

There were 25 civilian deaths on both sides during the whole of 2021; large portion of them due to mines and other wartime remains. The claims of genocide in Donbas are some of the most blatant lies there, and you should be ashamed of yourself for ever uttering them.

By ignoring the imperialist nature of the invasion, by repeating the position of Russian capital - “the genocide, the aggression, the protection of the motherland against foreign interests” - you inadvertently serve as their lackey.

I am far from equating. Liberation of Ukrainian people must culminate in the destruction of the Ukrainian state, be it western- or Russian-backed, as is the case for all other peoples and states.

On the other hand, destruction of only Ukraine serves only their imperialist oppressor - Russia.

It’s so funny when a liberal crying about “western values” is lecturing me on what constitutes idiocy.

“Everyone is getting called a Nazi these days, the word has lost all meaning”.

Sure…

I saw a person lower in the thread talking about Stalin’s USSR being a democracy, while another said that Russia and China can’t be imperialist. Doesn’t seem like a case of overuse to me.

Worse, it’s sometimes tankies, which means ditching it outright doesn’t feel justified enough

I agree. Ukraine shouldn’t do this.

The OP’s insinuation, however was not :

Ukraine is doing bad, it should do good

But:

Ukraine is doing bad, it doesn’t deserve support

When you go this route, you side with the oppressor.

What is this liberal handwringing? The justness of of fighting off an imperialist invasion doesn’t come from adhering to some vague notions of “western values”, but from not wanting to be subjected to that violence.

If you truly believe what you insinuate, your support for Palestine is conditional at best, irrational or deceitful at worst. If you don’t believe that - then stop being an agitator.

Jokes on you, I’m not from America. I’m one of those people who will suffer from its fall to fascism, living on the imperial periphery.

You are literally saying “let fascism come, I’m ready”.

Not everyone is. Your personal fight means nothing against the most powerful state in the world. You need a popular movement to just have a chance. Otherwise it’s just part suicidal doomerism part larp.

Fascists do care about winning, that is why they pump so much money into being elected, as elections are one of the most frictionless paths to power. That’s why they change the rules to make themselves more likely to be elected. That’s why they try to disenfranchise people who would vote against them. A coup is a risky thing, which is why they take all paths to power which are available.

You fight the cancer with everything you have or you die.

The problem is, you don’t have much. There isn’t a robust labor movement in the US which could provide a front against fascism. Any small scale or individual struggle might help you personally and save lives, but it’s not gonna stop the bus. At most it’s gonna pull some of the people from it before it drives of the cliff.

If you want to fight the guys who’re about to hijack the bus, you need time. As much time as possible to amass the response. Voting for shit burgers is just what gives you that sliver of it. This is the thing you keep doing to be able to keep going, not the saving grace.