Literally just mainlining marketing material straight into whatever’s left of their rotting brains.

  • sooper_dooper_roofer [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    there is something special or unique or not entirely understood about biological life (at least human life if not all life with a central nervous system) that produces sentience/consciousness/Qualia (‘soul’-ism as you might put it, but no ‘soul’ is required for this conclusion, it could just as easily be termed ‘mystery-ism’ or ‘unknown-ism’)

    This is just wrong lol, there’s nothing magical about vertebrates in comparison to unicellular organisms. Maybe the depth of our emotions might be bigger, but obviously a paramecium also feels fear and happiness and anticipation, because these are necessary for it to eat and reproduce, it wouldn’t do these things if they didn’t feel good

    The discrete dividing line is life and non-life (don’t @ me about viruses)

    • TraumaDumpling [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      central nervous systems are so far the only thing we almost universally recognize as producing human-like subjectivity (as our evidence is the self report of humans), so i restricted my argumentation to those parameters. for all i know every quark has a kind of subjectivity associated with it, it could be as fundamental to reality as matter. and for all i know a paramecium responds to its environment with purely unconscious instinct (or if that terminology is inaccurate, biological information processing) without an internal experience. we don’t really understand how subjectivity is produced well enough to isolate it for empirical study in humans, let alone mammals, let alone microbes - but i personally think it is plausible that all life if not all matter has some kind of subjectivity.

      • sooper_dooper_roofer [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        and for all i know a paramecium responds to its environment with purely unconscious instinct (or if that terminology is inaccurate, biological information processing) without an internal experience

        unicellular organisms have been shown to learn. It’s literally the same thing as a vertebrate, just less complex

    • appel@whiskers.bim.boats
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      1 year ago

      I don’t find that obvious at all. I agree there is nothing special dividing vertebrates from unicellular organisms, but I definitely think that some kind of CNS is required for the experience of emotions like fear, happiness etc. I do not see at all how paramecium could experience something like that. What part of it would experience it? Emotions in humans seem to be characterised by particular patterns of brain activity and concentrations of certain molecules (hormones, etc). I really cannot see how a unicellular organism has any capacity to experience emotions as we do. I would also argue that there is no dividing line between life and non-life. Whether something is alive or not is quite nebulous and hard to define. As you say, viruses are a good example but there are many others. Eg. a pregnant mammal. The foetus does not fill the classical, basic conditions of life that are taught in school (MRS H GREN, or whatever acronym) but does it really make sense to say that it is not alive? How many organisms are there when we look at a pregnant mammal. It is not clear.

      • sooper_dooper_roofer [none/use name]@hexbear.net
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        1 year ago

        but I definitely think that some kind of CNS is required for the experience of emotions like fear, happiness etc.

        okay, so when a scallop runs away from you it doesn’t feel fear?
        and when a paramecium is being ensnared by a hydra or some weird protist on your microscope slide, and it’s struggling to get away, it doesn’t feel fear? lol

        Obviously every moving living thing can feel fear, that’s why they’re moving living things and that’s why they run away from predators

        I would also argue that there is no dividing line between life and non-life. Whether something is alive or not is quite nebulous and hard to define

        With a few exceptions like viruses, it’s pretty obvious. Rocks don’t make more rocks, nor does water