Went to a restaurant in LA today and when I got the check I noticed that it was a bit higher than it should be. Then I noticed this 18% service charge. So… We, as customers, need to help pay for their servers instead of the owners paying their servers a living wage. And on top of that they have suggested tip. I called bs on this. I will bet you that the servers do not see a dime of this 18% service charge. [deleted a word so it wasn’t a grammatical horror to read]
So it’s a mandatory tip, and it’s also suggested you voluntarily leave a secondary tip.
Tip culture in America is so aggressive.
It’s getting stupid in Canada too despite our laws being different (as in, you cannot make less than minimum wage if you work in a place that allows tips).
I got my oil changed a few months ago and the machine prompted me for a tip. For what? The mechanic did their job, I paid for said job. Transaction concluded.
I tried Crumbl cookies for the first (and last, holy crap overpriced) time. Got asked for a tip. For what? I got six cookies in a box and then had to leave the store because there’s no seating to eat them there. The person who helped me took my order. That’s it. Another employee put six cookies in a box and put them on a counter and said my number. Not a lot of wiggle room to go “above and beyond.”
What’s next? A tip at the grocery store for the cashier scanning my groceries? A tip at the drive-thru?
Here’s a tip. Don’t work for an employer who doesn’t pay you what you’re worth.
EDIT: Actually, the tip at the drive-thru is already a thing. Starbucks prompts for a tip at the drive-thru. For what? The barista took my order and made my coffee. I drove up to a window, took it, and fucked off.
I booked a hotel online the other day and was asked if I want to leave a tip… A tip for what? I didn’t even interact with a human. Just clicked a few buttons on a website. Am I tipping the web developer?? Lol
As a developer, I never get tips. Even on my open-source stuff, I have a “tip jar” PayPal link on the very bottom of my readme files. Never asked, never required. Know how much I’ve made in tips over the years? Exactly $0.
Have you tried walking into your software’s users’ homes to clear away empty plates and refill their water?
I know it feels gross, but asking is how you get people to do things. This is true for pretty much everything. That’s why mobile apps have a popup asking people to leave a rating, and Apple even has a standardized API for showing that popup since it’s so common.
So you should try something similar for you projects. Come up with an (ideally non-intrusive) ask that feels like a personal request rather than just a link dumped somewhere in a readme.
And if you feel bad about it, just remember that getting people to pay for OSS is a win for the whole ecosystem!
I’ve definitely tipped developers (through the ‘buy me a coffee’ site, or occasionally patreon). But I’m unusual I think…
I got promoted for a tip from an online pharmacy last week. So we’re apparently tipping on medicine now.
Starbucks baristas doesn’t even “make” the coffee. They use superautomatic espresso machines. Starbucks coffee sucks ass.
Does it suck because of or despite the machines?
It clearly doesn’t suck or there wouldn’t be one on every street corner in North America.
But I’m sure you’re right about the automation. They don’t want variability in your experience. They want a coffee in Texas to taste the same as a coffee in Iqaluit.
In the US you generally cannot make less than minimum wage, the employer can directly pay you less as long as your full compensation (pay + tips) are at least minimum wage, if not they are supposed to pay more.
I think the explosion of tip questions is due to the card processors figuring out there was an untapped area where they could pressure people to tip and skim off a percentage of that.
That’s the thing here - the employer must pay you the same regardless of tips. Tips are always a bonus, not part of your wage.
What’s next? A tip at the grocery store for the cashier scanning my groceries?
Nope, a tip at a self-checkout.
Reminds me of how dealerships can sell cars above the MSRP … SMH
(( They do it in US but not in Europe; or so I heard ))
The S in MSRP is “suggested”, so I don’t see any technical problem with it. I think we need a separate term if it’s meant to be a locked price point across sellers.
All the arguments about tipping here are missing the point. The restaurant owner just came up with a bullshit way of raising the prices without showing larger numbers on the menu. That should honestly be illegal.
A lottt of restaurants in socal do this, unfortunately. I’ve never seen it this high, though.
maybe it’s to allow take-away at a lower price, like a dine in vs eat out charge.
Very rare, I’m from Ireland & have only seen it once in a Chinese restaurant. They were very clear about it in the menu though so it wasn’t a sticker shock price
You can,
-
want the owner to take a smaller cut
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be willing to pay more to raise the wages of the employees
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want to control via tips how much people make
What is BS is hidden costs.
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The thing is, by paying for food we should be paying the employees - that’s how salaries work. But in an effort to out-compete each other in the razor-thin margin business that is most restaurants, they don’t want their menu prices to go up, because that discourages customer spending. So many restaurants use underhanded tactics to screw customers instead. Hidden menu prices, sneaky service fees, and begging for point-of-sale tips at places where they’re not getting paid shitty server salaries (like fast food).
But for some reason, those menu prices still are higher than for example in Germany, where service charge isn’t a thing and tips are “round up so I don’t get small change back”.
Probably because in our atmosphere we more readily criticize bosses taking 90%+ off the top, while in the US it’s entirely normal that any increase in prices goes entirely into the manager pockets and the servers continue to be paid just enough to physically survive so they can show up for work again.
And sure, it happens a lot over here, too. But to a lesser degree, and not as readily. The base climate is different.
I disagree. Those prices are pretty typical for most (proper) german restaurants and i would even say some of it is on the more affordable side. Also, while tipping culture isn’t what it is in the US, giving less than 10% will make the waiter almost certainly hate you.
That’s no excuse for that outrageous “service fee”, of course.
I’ll be the one to stoop to a name and shame. From the receipt, that’s Jon & Vinny’s Brentwood. Thanks—will now be sure to avoid going there.
Any auto-grat on a bill is an instant big fat 0 on the tip line for me. Fuck double dipping on customers subsidizing shitty wages. It shouldn’t even need to happen once. If the restaurant can’t pay a reasonable wage it shouldn’t be in business.
I would be completely okay with a restaurant charging a bit more for meals if they also had a “do not tip” policy. Wait staff should be expected to do their jobs, the restaurant should be expected to pay their employees. As a customer I should be expected to pay the restaurant, full stop.
I wouldn’t go back, but your anger is towards management not the worker. I’d still tip in this situation.
This isn’t an auto-grat situation though. This is the restaurant increasing their prices by 18%, then blaming it on the staff.
By not tipping, you’re just punishing the wait staff for the restaurant’s shitty behavior. Better to tip normally, then tell the restaurant you won’t be back until they get their heads out of their asses.
This isn’t an auto grat tho? This is them saying “You pay more so our employees get better pay, you pay exactly this much more for this effect”. Instead of them just cranking up prices like normal.
Y’all are bitching and moaning about a restaurant being honest instead of just fucking charging more.
This isn’t an auto-grat. The receipt explicitly says “This is not a tip or gratuity” and has a recommended tip line. This restaurant is either double-dipping to pay their employees less or scamming their customers.
If it’s not an auto-grat why not just raise the prices on the menu 18 percent instead of surprising customers at checkout. Setting prices to cover your business and staff is an important part of running any business. The way they’re doing it is intentianally deceptive. Even down to saying that this is so that they can pay staff instead of just advertising the actual prices in the menu.
What is this nonsense? I mean, since the customers are the only source of income for a restaurant, of course the customers pay for the wages.
But why hide that behind obscure markups (that’s all a service charge/tip is)? Why not just price the food 18% higher and drop the service charge?
That way, the restaurant earns the same money, but the customers actually know what they are going to pay and the restaurant visit doesn’t end on a down note when paying.
People look at the menu, decide the prices are reasonable and eat. They then get hit with an 18% service charge and (in the US) a 20% tip on top.
The restaurant could increase their prices by 18%, but then people would decide to eat elsewhere. Of course they’ll do that anyway after being hit with all the charges, but the owner thinks it’s worth it to get the custom once.
Wild that somebody would decide $22.25 is reasonable for chicken wings. Maybe for 100 of them …
They seem to be massively overcharging, which makes the whole thing a lot wilder. At those prices they could afford to pay their staff well and abolish both tips and service charge…
Suspect the owner is just a knob.
It’s in LA, everything is expensive and well is very relative. Minimum wage is almost $17.
Why would you tip when the restaurant just pre-charged an 18% tip? They say it isn’t a tip but it goes to the employees so, unless the service staff was beyond exemplary, just don’t tip. It’s less than I would have anyway.
You’re stating the obvious. The owners are making a political statement.
Does anyone now if the restaurant pays different taxes on food/drinks sold and tip/service fees?
Name and shame. Fuck this place.
Also “kids shells” for $22? Please tell me this is not macaroni and cheese.
It’s almost certainly a Mac & Cheese variant. Stuff like this is why I heavily research restaurant prices before going out.
Gem lettuce for $22? Wtf is the US smoking?
Just Los Angeles things 🤷♂️
Since it is L.A. the markup is because of the volume of people willing/able to pay $22 for a kids Mac and cheese. At that point the tip is just mocking the workers of the restaurant.
the most concerning part for me is the “LA woman” charge… is that just a restaurant?
I mean, that’s basically the way it works. Here it’s just ‘transparent’.
Want to pay workers more - food gets more expensive. It’s the same thing with America not adding sales tax to the sticker price. When I get something for 2 bucks in Europe, it’s 2 bucks including the vat. In America, it’s 2 bucks before vat.
But yeah, it’s probably not properly implemented and just a scheme to get more money out of people.
Except it’s contingent on people making purchases. If there is a slow day, you work the same amount of hours but earn less because your pay isn’t tied to how many hours you worked, but how many sales were made. By doing it this way, it takes the risk of running business off the owners shoulders and puts it on the workers instead.
What i meant is that, in a theoretical mathematically sound world, to support higher wages, you need higher prices. The service charge shouldn’t be put as a ‘bonus salary’ - basically the ‘service charge’ in most countries is included in the price of the food, and is paid out as the hourly wage to staff.
Wait a minute, are you suggesting restaurants are just normal businesses that can be run like any other? Because that’s heresy. Restaurants are Special, because Reasons.
This is the opposite of transparent. When I order food, I’m agreeing the pay the listed price for the item I ordered. Adding 18% on top of that when it comes time to pay is hiding that fee.
If they want to charge more, they should raise their prices
I thought the point of paying servers a living wage was to make tipping unnecessary.
This line of thinking is just making serving a less attractive job for millions of people to save yourself a small amount of money.
This line of thinking is what let’s wage thieves sleep at night.
Tell me you don’t understand wage theft without telling me you don’t understand wage theft.
If they have started charging this service fee customers will be less inclined to tip on top. So if the money from the service fee is not entirely being used to increase staff wages, then the restaurant management is effectively stealing their tips. That is wage theft in spirit if not legal definition.
This conclusions requires two separate assumptions from you that are not evidence-based
The sun’s core being filled with a quark plasma soup instead of, for example cotton candy, is also an assumption that is not evidence-based.
It’s almost like we as humans can use logic and reason to determine things to be extremely significantly probable without having proof in our hands.
Our understanding of the sun’s composition is absolutely evidence-based.
You’re making the assumption that
1: this money is embezzled by the owner
2: people are less likely to tip
You’re also making a third: that servers receiving less pay won’t go elsewhere
Whereas we extrapolate from data to understand the Sun (moving from evidence to conclusion) you are starting with your expected result and then manufacturing caused (embezzlement, lack of tips)
This is the opposite of using “logic and reason”
“We want to charge you more, but we want to make sure you blame our wait staff for it.”
I wouldn’t be surprised if the QR code sends you to a website bitching about “the current administration”.
From the site they link to:
What About Tips?
If customers have exceptional service, we encourage them to tip our employees at the percentage or amount they feel comfortable with.
Maybe they should change the “Suggested Tips” with “Had exceptional service? Feel free to add a tip.” and start at 5%
Also, they should be clear if all or part of the “service charge” goes towards employee salaries.
From:
I’m not in america, in our country when we buy a meal the tax is included, as is the cost of paying staff a living wage and tips are really only given (volunteerily, without prompt) in certain scenarios where service might genuinely be extraordinary.
It’s always been fascinating to me that it could be done any other way and to be honest it sounds incredibly complicated and quite shitty the way america does it, it seems to me like it’s an old fashioned relic from the swashbuckling 1800’s, pay your maiden well and she’ll make sure your mead is always topped up… But in 2023 it seems absurd, prepared food and drink is just a product like anything else, do you tip at Walmart when you buy a TV?
Knowing some of the absurd stories I’ve heard from americans (tipping car salesmen, pharmacies…) then tipping walmart wouldn’t surprise me at all.
Sure, the tipping culture is out of control, but anyone who tips a pharmacist or a car salesman is just a moron.
Walmart has a policy where you are not allowed to accept tips. If you are caught you are fired. People try to tip all the time for the grocery delivery stuff and if they manage to get money into your hand or the delivery basket you have to inform a member of the management staff. Granted this might not be true at every location but it is part of the corporate training you have to do if you work there longer than 4 months.
Which is galling since Walmart pays the minimum wage
Corporations invented Jaywalking to pass the problem of death by vehicle from the manufacturer to the victim. Corporations invented the concept of Litterbug to shift blame from the makers of trash to the disposers of trash. Corporations invented the concept of the personal carbon footprint to shift the blame from the makers of carbon to the users of carbon.
This is just the same thing. Corporations are good at this.
Those prices are about what I’d expect to pay at a restaurant here in Finland too, maybe a little more here but somehow they’re able to pay a living wage to the staff from that without extra “service charge” or tips.
You can also afford to buy a house. Finland best country
I’m sure it’s like every other country where a house out in the country is cheap but Helsinki is unaffordable.
It’s the same here in Germany except for the cheap house in the country part.
It’s all relative but housing in Germany is pretty cheap as a percentage of income compared to most western countries
Munich called and wants your claim laughed at
I want a cheap house overlooking Neuschwanstein Schloss, bitte
Yeah don’t let that dude fool you, there are not really any first world countries where house in the country is cheap
What do you mean? A house in the city is almost always more expensive than a house in a rural area, in every country
Yeah that’s not what I meant, more like there are not many first world countries with affordable housing in any sense (like Germany and Canada)
In canada, I make good money but will never afford a house except butt fuck nowhere Saskatchewan or Manitoba
My wife and I are actually hoping to permenantly relocate to Finland after many years of pondering. I am in IT so even Helsinki is affordable but we want to live in Vaasa
You do have to live next to Russia though…
I bet legally, the establishment owners aren’t required to give “service charges” to their staff the same way they are required to give 100% of the tips…
This is some shady shit, IMO.
Disclaimer: I’m not a lawyer (so I don’t know WTF I am talking about), so if someone here that knows the law could comment on “service charges” vs. “tips” in this context, I would love to know.
Looks like a couple of their employees are suing over exactly that.
Jesus. They try to be altruistic and say that tip culture isn’t fair (and it’s not), but you know the altruistic thing would be to… Not have tipping then! I’m in Seattle and there are tons of restaurants like this that have a fee, but then tipping is genuinely not allowed, they don’t accept them. Everyone gets a fair wage.
That 18% is definitely not going to the staff.
And for the owners, here’s an idea, why not just make the menu items 18% more expensive and remove the fee altogether?? And if that means your food is too expensive… Literally yes. Why does your food cost that much?
Tyvm for finding this article!!
" The announcement and change in billing language comes after a Los Angeles Times article published on June 21 about the class-action lawsuit filed in Los Angeles Superior Court against Joint Venture Restaurant Group Inc., which owns Jon & Vinny’s. The workers claim that the company denied them tips and therefore shortchanged them on their take-home pay because of confusion resulting from the 18% service fee.
California’s gratuity law requires that tips be remitted in full to non-managerial service staff. "
SMH … What a bunch of assholes; screwed their customers and then their staff…
Hope they get fucked / hope justice is served
Disclaimer: I’m not a lawyer
DAMNIT MAN, i already filed the lawsuit and put your name on top as a reference
Makes me think 🤔 if I went to a grocery store and they charged me a membership like Costco without actually disclosing it… Sounds like fraud if they don’t disclose this service charge / fee at the very beginning… They should have it plastered big all over the place because looks like most of us wouldn’t expect something like this…
“Restraunt” food is expensive as it is IMHO, even fast food isn’t a great deal unless you buy with a coupon or some 2 burgers deal 🤝… Otherwise it’s not worth it… Not to me anyways … :/
If only I could simply use a coupon to get a decent price from a fast food place. Nah, instead they all demand that you install a datamining app to maybe get you prices that would’ve been the regular price just a few years ago.
Ye… I hear Ya
The word that should be there is “gratuity.” I’m quite sure you’re right, and I know there are horrible owners for sure, but I would have to think it would be impossible for a restaurant nice enough to charge $22.50 for a mini plate of pasta to retain good servers if they did that. Restaurant owners who operate fancy high-priced places would have more sense than to alienate their salespeople.
It’s LA, so I assume there are plenty of douchy “haute cuisine” wannabe places that charge $50 for a handful of steamed rice served in a styrofoam coffee cup under the name “Riz Derelicte” or some stupid shit like that.
what a unique and lovely culture… and so, specific…
There better be a big noticeable sign at the entrance telling you this. Otherwise, this is a bait and switch scam. Advertising one price, giving the service, and then changing the price. You can’t advertise a price and then charge more for it without ensuring that the customer is informed about it. The only exception is tax, since it is something the average person should already expect. Even mandatory gratuity for large parties has to be communicated ahead of time. And this specifically says it’s not gratuity, it’s a charge for the service.
As soon as a customer is served something, it’s too late. You can’t just put it on the bill. Doesn’t matter what they say it’s for either. It’s not your responsibility to pay the servers anymore than it’s your responsibility to separately pay for the ingredients of the food. Unless they want to detail it all out up front. But then you’d see the huge profit margin.
Still seems mad to me that usalanders don’t have tax included in their advertised prices.
That one is annoying but also makes perfect sense when everyone is competing with everyone. The business with honest prices suffers when their nearby competitor doesn’t include it and looks cheaper. The states lose out on revenue if they force businesses to display full prices but the state next door doesn’t, or has better tax rates. They all benefit from confusion.
Where there is not confusion is the border with a state with no sales tax, and all the good shopping is found on one side.
For a real fun US-ism, fuel in the US is charged at fractions of a penny (9/10s). As any Office Space fan can tell you, that adds up.
Fuel in the UK (and most of Europe I believe) is charged in tenths of a penny too.
Is there not a way to make it a nationwide requirement to advertise including tax? I know very little about US economics so there might be a very good reason, I never really thought much about it beyond “huh, that’s weird” to be honest.
