This post is a reminder that Visa and Mastercard are two american companies and that every time you pay for something with your credit card you are most likely paying taxes to trump and his goons.
This post is also intended to be a provocation to all the crypto haters and the cashless payment fanatics.
Reminder: Arguing and discussion is okay, but keep it civil and do not attack the person you are arguing with.
The real problem here is that the “alternative” is a lot country specific alternatives that have no leverage to command worldwide adoption.
This could only be addressed ultimately by EU federalization. Let’s see how much time until people and governments take to realize this.
In France there is the CB network.
A lot of cards are dual network CB/Visa or CB/MasterCard and the fees are much lower in the CB network so most POS are using it as well.
Does the same go for debit cards?
I often paid with my cards (or my watch), but switched to cash until there is a legit european alternative. Most cryptocurrencies are pump and dump schemes
Digital Euro when?
In Sweden we have Swish, which allows you to pay for stuff online without using any debit or credit card. I use it all the time, I cannot remember last time I paid online with card, unless it was from a foreign online shop/service.
However, it often isn’t available in grocery and retail stores. But it is often available in rural areas or small shops who don’t want to pay the fee for cards.
Also, Sweden is developing an e-krona, an electronic version of the Swedish currency. It should hopefully replace cards in all shops in the future.
Until then, using cash in grocery and retail stores is always possible. The problem is most swedes haven’t seen physical money in so long I am not certain they still know how to use it… 🤔
MobilePay in Finland and Denmark. I am not so sure the underlying payment infrastructure is US-free though.
This is a good point concerning Swish too, I have no idea.
You actually can pay in quite a few retail shops using swish nowadays.
Also loads of stores don’t accept cash at all. Most big stores like grocery stores accept cash but not always all tills
Yeah, it is definitely getting more common. And cashless stores are also getting more common, which isn’t necessarily a desirable development :/
So what should we use😂?
This is getting absurd
Depends on what’s available where you live. In Poland we have BLIK! I think a few other countries are starting to use it too. The way it works is that in your banking app you get a 6 digit code, and enter it in the terminal. Less convenient than tap-to-pay but writing that made me realize how spoiled I am, lol. It’s really convenient for online purchases though, no need to spend all that time writing card info and no risk of that info getting into the wrong hands.
Some things are harder to replace than others, and no one expects you to change everything anyway. I don’t know why it’s “too absurd”. If anything, our dependence on that makes them all the more important to use/develop alternatives for.
Yeah! It’s best to use the national network, if it exists in your country. Also, daily reminder that the EU is working towards the digital Euro.
This post is also intended to be a provocation to all the crypto haters and the cashless payment fanatics.
I don’t really get this tbh…
The digital euro looks so promising, even if it’s a small thing. Ditching Visa and Mastercard would help reduce intermediates in the payment chain, even if the replacement is the bank itself.
I don’t really get this tbh…
Plenty of threads on lemmy where people argue cryptos have no real use. Here’s one: buying a product in europe without paying taxes to donald trump
Name one place I can spend crypto that isn’t a dodgy online market
Or indeed a place to buy it for real money that doesn’t involve a US payment processing company.
No point if you have to pay to get it in the first place.
mullvad
Noted European retailer, newegg.
You just said “one place”
Proton or Mullvad if you prefer.
I concede that there are online services that aren’t money laundering fronts or drug marketplaces that accept cryptocurrency as payment. OP also provided examples of online services accepting bitcoin.
I should have been more specific, my mistake. I was thinking more about every day purchases like groceries in a brick and mortar shop.
Fair, I was thinking more brick & mortar and grocery shops but, fair.
There are also privacy-paranoid companies selling custom mobile phones without microphones for crypto currencies that you can then pick up in person.
But honestly, I wouldn’t trust them. If your threat level is the government you should purchase a used phone from a random stranger and pay with cash.
Oh thanks for clarifying… I don’t really see those posts, to be honest.
I do hold some crypto myself (BTC). I think it’s good to have some sort of currency outside of FIAT, just in case, but I don’t foresee it ever becoming a thing in the EU.
Girokarte regelt
Hast du dir mal das Logo mit dem zwei Kreisen näher angeschaut?
Giro payment system läuft getrennt von Visa und Mastercard. Viele Girokarten sind aber eine Kombination aus Giro und Visa oder Masterkarte und da kommt manchmal das Logo her.
There is already a solution inside the EU, the shops just have to support it now. “Over the course of 2025, banks will no longer be allowed to charge additional fees for instant transfers in euros. Banks in all 20 euro countries must also offer the real-time service as standard.”
They’re not the only options!
There’s also… American Express
How do we not have an international European card processor?
Because usa government and companies bought the current politicians
While it is partly true - look at how big lobbyorganisations of said companies are in Strasburg - I do not like how General this is. “All politicians are bought” is just straight up wrong.
Corporations in America don’t pay taxes. They kill us slowly and erode our democracy and sponsor facism but they don’t pay taxes.
They don’t pay income tax, but they do pay tax. They pay payroll taxes when paying employees, and those employees have to pay income taxes on those wages.
If you buy american, some of that money will go to the feds in taxes, and the US has a major corporate tax evasion problem. Both are true.
In (only) Italy you can use Bancomat
I think that’s one of the part where there is no credible alternative, most of your credit/debit card will be either Visa or Mastercard, they’re monoliths
every time you pay for something with your credit card you are most likely paying taxes to trump and his goons
Genuine question, how so?
