As an EU citizen, we want good relations with USA, It’s 100% Trump and Musk who are ruining it.
They are literally insane, and USA needs to remove them. Unless they do, I guess we can’t be friends anymore.
Gonna be honest, i haven’t agreed with that in 20 years, on account that the US can and will fuck over any ally it has if that has the slightest marginal gain for them. Any time the wind blows a different way, the US will throw all their allies under the bus. They are a greedy nation and poor allies.
They’ve spied on the EU, they applied tariffs on the EU, they have threatened the EU with invasion after we helped them in their fruitless war in the middle east and had to deal with the migrant crises that resulted from it basically alone ? Now we have to deal with meddling in democratic elections? Never again, i say. We go at it alone, we trade, but that’s it.
They were great help when Yugoslavia broke down.
They were also great help, although with some hold backs to help Ukraine, it’s absolutely nonsense to say otherwise.
The basis for the Europe-USA friendship is also that USA helped enormously way beyond any European country’s ability in WW2. And the Americans actually secured freedom for western Europe, very contrary to the part that Soviet Union occupied.
USA was also great aid for Europe when the Soviet collapsed, making for instance Poland one of the countries where USA was most popular after that.
Unfortunately cracks began to appear already with Bush Jr. and the false intelligence on Iraq. And obviously under Trump who threatened to not respect article 5. And obviously now where Trump behaves like a mafia boss.
But there is no doubt we’d prefer normal relations restored, where USA and allies cooperate on real issues around the world.
Unfortunately Trump makes normal relations impossible.
Hard disagree that we’re better off with relations restored. Even if Trump was not in the white house, the current internal political situation in the US is a powder keg ripe for abuse.
The US helped Europe in post war but it made enormous amounts of money with it. Why do you think in the 50s and onward Americans had a massive a massive golden age of prosperity where you could support a full household on a highschool diploma which led to a massive baby boom ? It was all piggybacking on the massive loans Europe took to rebuild itself.
Did they have to do it ? No, but if you know anything about Americans is that they love money. They didn’t do it out of the kindness of their hearts or because they feel Europe is such an important ally, they did it purely and exclusively for money. They wanted money and Europe could give it. When matters of money align, and we both stand to profit, no issues there - we should cooperate with Americans. But make no mistake, everything the US does is for its own benefit and nobody else’s and if they don’t stand to gain anything from cooperating, they will throw their allies under the bus first chance. Americans must be kept at arms length at all times.
They are not European allies, they have never been European allies, we just stood to gain together in the past. It was profit, pure and simple.
Yet no developed country with high taxation on high income earners and women in the workforce has ever managed to even come close to the success the US had back then. Something you see, for instance, in several wealthy European countries. No, that’s not why. They had an entire continent of developed but destroyed countries paying off humongous loans under the Marshall’s plan and similar investments thereafter.
Trump got about the same number of votes this time as he did in the previous election (marginally less, I believe).
It makes little difference to point out, but it’s good to remember that the Dems are a bunch of feckless corporate shills who lost the support of their voters, and about a third to half the country simply doesn’t vote.
Trump is a symptom and the end result of deeply systemic and cultural issues here, and as an American, I hope you guys make it hurt. Maybe then we’ll wake up to the problems here. I doubt it, but at least the economic collapse here will hopefully spare the rest of the world from a dementia patient with daddy Putin’s leash on his collar swinging the biggest military budget in the world around like he’s got something to compensate for.
You are right, the problem is very much a widespread attitude in USA.
They need to modernize their democracy, and they need to modernize their interpretation and regulation of what free speech is.
The 2 main reasons USA is as fucked up as it is now, is that the 2 party system undermines democracy, and way too much misinformation is allowed.
You can’t build democracy on lies.
I really really hope Americans will wake up soon, and realize this.
You forgot about apathy. Even with a healthier plurality of political parties, the big thing is the majority of potential voters don’t bother. Some because of being lazy, some because it is unreasonably hard for them to get time off of work/contend with suppression.
This administration also highlights that the president matters too much. You can’t have even two parties interest honored when a singular man gets his way so much.
hard for them to get time off of work/contend with suppression.
Part of having a working democracy, is that it’s easy to vote. That means it’s close to where you live, and that it can be done quickly. That you are automatically registered to vote is a given. Also that people in prisons can vote is a minimum requirement for a functioning democracy.
USA fails on so many counts, creating obstructions instead of facilitating voting, that many Americans don’t even know what a good democracy looks and feels like.
There will always be some that are prevented or don’t care, but that’s not normally a big problem for good democracies.
If the election is non controversial, it’s not as important, and if it is controversial, more people participate. Most functioning democracies have about 80% voter participation AFAIK. Here we usually in the high 80’s.
I’m an American immigrant in Germany, and I’ve come to realize that most Americans are very naive about government. The US has been very successful in the short time it’s been around as a country, and I don’t think most Americans really realize that it won’t always be like that. At the same time, the education system has been gradually but thoroughly gutted.
I hope we can wake up, but I worry we might need to see for ourselves before we can actually learn. I just hope the rest of the world doesn’t indulge us so long that we take everyone else with us.
Absolutely USA as a country has been a huge success, and I think you are right, that people think that proves the model is good.
But there are many other factors that have helped USA become a success. A huge population with a unified language is one, massive agricultural potential is another. Lot’s of natural resources, and oil to kick-start industrialization.
It will be hard to elevate public education much without social reforms. AFAIK USA spend more on public education than many European countries, but results are worse, maybe in part because of poverty.
It’s way harder for Children that live in poverty to pay attention to school to the same degree that better off children can. That’s been a well known fact for many decades, and USA is doing absolutely diddly about it.
I realized that my comment kind of sounds like I’m calling Americans dumb or uneducated generally, but I was thinking specifically about civics, history, and economics classes and I never mentioned that. Those courses are either missing from the curriculum or heavily biased to the point that I think it’s natural for people to have a poor understanding of fascism.
My parents both had masters degrees, and I grew up in a house where “communist” was a slur and “anarchist” was a synonym for chaotic. They weren’t stupid or uneducated, but they had been significantly propagandized. My dad fully thinks that leftists are fascist. Hell, I learned through high school that the US had never lost a war. My history classes never got past 1945, with the exceptions of the moon landing and the fall of the Berlin Wall.
As an EU citizen, we want good relations with USA, It’s 100% Trump and Musk who are ruining it.
They are literally insane, and USA needs to remove them. Unless they do, I guess we can’t be friends anymore.
Gonna be honest, i haven’t agreed with that in 20 years, on account that the US can and will fuck over any ally it has if that has the slightest marginal gain for them. Any time the wind blows a different way, the US will throw all their allies under the bus. They are a greedy nation and poor allies.
They’ve spied on the EU, they applied tariffs on the EU, they have threatened the EU with invasion after we helped them in their fruitless war in the middle east and had to deal with the migrant crises that resulted from it basically alone ? Now we have to deal with meddling in democratic elections? Never again, i say. We go at it alone, we trade, but that’s it.
They were great help when Yugoslavia broke down.
They were also great help, although with some hold backs to help Ukraine, it’s absolutely nonsense to say otherwise.
The basis for the Europe-USA friendship is also that USA helped enormously way beyond any European country’s ability in WW2. And the Americans actually secured freedom for western Europe, very contrary to the part that Soviet Union occupied.
USA was also great aid for Europe when the Soviet collapsed, making for instance Poland one of the countries where USA was most popular after that.
Unfortunately cracks began to appear already with Bush Jr. and the false intelligence on Iraq. And obviously under Trump who threatened to not respect article 5. And obviously now where Trump behaves like a mafia boss.
But there is no doubt we’d prefer normal relations restored, where USA and allies cooperate on real issues around the world.
Unfortunately Trump makes normal relations impossible.
Hard disagree that we’re better off with relations restored. Even if Trump was not in the white house, the current internal political situation in the US is a powder keg ripe for abuse.
The US helped Europe in post war but it made enormous amounts of money with it. Why do you think in the 50s and onward Americans had a massive a massive golden age of prosperity where you could support a full household on a highschool diploma which led to a massive baby boom ? It was all piggybacking on the massive loans Europe took to rebuild itself.
Did they have to do it ? No, but if you know anything about Americans is that they love money. They didn’t do it out of the kindness of their hearts or because they feel Europe is such an important ally, they did it purely and exclusively for money. They wanted money and Europe could give it. When matters of money align, and we both stand to profit, no issues there - we should cooperate with Americans. But make no mistake, everything the US does is for its own benefit and nobody else’s and if they don’t stand to gain anything from cooperating, they will throw their allies under the bus first chance. Americans must be kept at arms length at all times.
They are not European allies, they have never been European allies, we just stood to gain together in the past. It was profit, pure and simple.
Because the rich were taxed 90%, and women began to work during WW2 as part of the war effort, and kept doing it after.
Yet no developed country with high taxation on high income earners and women in the workforce has ever managed to even come close to the success the US had back then. Something you see, for instance, in several wealthy European countries. No, that’s not why. They had an entire continent of developed but destroyed countries paying off humongous loans under the Marshall’s plan and similar investments thereafter.
Half of the voters voted for Trump, so no thanks, I don’t want to have good relations with the US. I want to isolate them as much as possible.
Half of the people who voted*
Trump got about the same number of votes this time as he did in the previous election (marginally less, I believe).
It makes little difference to point out, but it’s good to remember that the Dems are a bunch of feckless corporate shills who lost the support of their voters, and about a third to half the country simply doesn’t vote.
Trump is a symptom and the end result of deeply systemic and cultural issues here, and as an American, I hope you guys make it hurt. Maybe then we’ll wake up to the problems here. I doubt it, but at least the economic collapse here will hopefully spare the rest of the world from a dementia patient with daddy Putin’s leash on his collar swinging the biggest military budget in the world around like he’s got something to compensate for.
You are right, the problem is very much a widespread attitude in USA.
They need to modernize their democracy, and they need to modernize their interpretation and regulation of what free speech is.
The 2 main reasons USA is as fucked up as it is now, is that the 2 party system undermines democracy, and way too much misinformation is allowed.
You can’t build democracy on lies.
I really really hope Americans will wake up soon, and realize this.
You forgot about apathy. Even with a healthier plurality of political parties, the big thing is the majority of potential voters don’t bother. Some because of being lazy, some because it is unreasonably hard for them to get time off of work/contend with suppression.
This administration also highlights that the president matters too much. You can’t have even two parties interest honored when a singular man gets his way so much.
Part of having a working democracy, is that it’s easy to vote. That means it’s close to where you live, and that it can be done quickly. That you are automatically registered to vote is a given. Also that people in prisons can vote is a minimum requirement for a functioning democracy.
USA fails on so many counts, creating obstructions instead of facilitating voting, that many Americans don’t even know what a good democracy looks and feels like.
There will always be some that are prevented or don’t care, but that’s not normally a big problem for good democracies.
If the election is non controversial, it’s not as important, and if it is controversial, more people participate. Most functioning democracies have about 80% voter participation AFAIK. Here we usually in the high 80’s.
I’m an American immigrant in Germany, and I’ve come to realize that most Americans are very naive about government. The US has been very successful in the short time it’s been around as a country, and I don’t think most Americans really realize that it won’t always be like that. At the same time, the education system has been gradually but thoroughly gutted.
I hope we can wake up, but I worry we might need to see for ourselves before we can actually learn. I just hope the rest of the world doesn’t indulge us so long that we take everyone else with us.
Absolutely USA as a country has been a huge success, and I think you are right, that people think that proves the model is good.
But there are many other factors that have helped USA become a success. A huge population with a unified language is one, massive agricultural potential is another. Lot’s of natural resources, and oil to kick-start industrialization.
It will be hard to elevate public education much without social reforms. AFAIK USA spend more on public education than many European countries, but results are worse, maybe in part because of poverty.
It’s way harder for Children that live in poverty to pay attention to school to the same degree that better off children can. That’s been a well known fact for many decades, and USA is doing absolutely diddly about it.
I realized that my comment kind of sounds like I’m calling Americans dumb or uneducated generally, but I was thinking specifically about civics, history, and economics classes and I never mentioned that. Those courses are either missing from the curriculum or heavily biased to the point that I think it’s natural for people to have a poor understanding of fascism.
My parents both had masters degrees, and I grew up in a house where “communist” was a slur and “anarchist” was a synonym for chaotic. They weren’t stupid or uneducated, but they had been significantly propagandized. My dad fully thinks that leftists are fascist. Hell, I learned through high school that the US had never lost a war. My history classes never got past 1945, with the exceptions of the moon landing and the fall of the Berlin Wall.
Europeans are still clinging to the delusion that Trump is an aberration.
I don’t think anyone has understood this, so let’s see :
Trump is continuing longstanding foreign policy.
It available to anyone who does exactly are they are told .
Musk and Trump don’t change that.
17hr account throwing around shit.