Well, the re-builders would be breaking the law now that the source code isn’t available for non-paying customers. They weren’t breaking the law before.
No they would not. The sources are still licensed under the GPL or other FOSS licenses, and if the rebuilders can acquire the sources, they are legally allowed to use them. Red Hat does not have the liberty to relicense the sources because they don’t own them. Do you understand that?
So, do you expect every company to release the source code of their products just because they used a FOSS web framework or a FOSS programming language like Python? Or by the same logic, for companies to release the source code of their products if their developers use Linux in their development machines? Or if they use Linux to deploy their applications in the cloud? That’s such an unreasonable position.
That is an invalid comparison. Of course it’s possible to write non-FOSS code in most languages, including python. A C program is not a derivative work of GCC, a python script is not a derivative work of python and so on. If you use external libraries or a framework, you indeed have to be mindful of the license it comes under, because it may affect the licensing of your program (LGPL vs GPL comes into play here), but of course that’s only an issue if you distribute the software.
But … that’s not what Red Hat is doing with RHEL, and this is why your comparison is invalid. They are not merely distributing some independently written python or C programs, they are distributing the actual FOSS software itself or derivative works thereof. RHEL includes things like the linux kernel, systemd, selinux, gcc, glibc, all the gnu utilities, bash, python, perl, … all this is code under FOSS licenses that Red Hat does not own the copyright to, so they can’t just choose to relicense it and they need to obey the respective FOSS licenses. I don’t think it’s an unreasonable position at all to expect companies to obey the licenses of the software that they use or distribute. In fact I think it’s the only position you can take.
OK, so is Redhat breaking any license? Do you really think a company like Redhat would open itself to thousands of lawsuits like that. The CEO already explained that this is totally legal and covered by GPL. They are in fact distributing the source to the people receiving the product. This is exactly what GPL says. They are not forced to open the source code to people who aren’t getting the distributed software.
What is your complaint then? They are not breaking any law and they are following the GPL license.
I was using the webframework/language as examples because you said this wasn’t a matter of law but a matter of principle. So why does the principle apply to Redhat but not the million other products that totally depend on FOSS on their core?
So many projects do in fact distribute the FOSS, but they use more permissive licenses like MIT, Apache or LGPL. BUT you’re saying the law is not relevant, what matters is the principle. So why don’t everyone release their code if they depend on FOSS on their core products? Because they aren’t breaking the Apache or MIT licenses? Well, that’s great! Redhar isn’t breaking the GPL license either. Why must Redhat follow whatever subjective principles you have?
— “hey there’s this company creating a commercial product around FOSS. They aren’t breaking any license.”
— “Nice, as long as the licenses aren’t compromised”
No they would not. The sources are still licensed under the GPL or other FOSS licenses, and if the rebuilders can acquire the sources, they are legally allowed to use them. Red Hat does not have the liberty to relicense the sources because they don’t own them. Do you understand that?
That is an invalid comparison. Of course it’s possible to write non-FOSS code in most languages, including python. A C program is not a derivative work of GCC, a python script is not a derivative work of python and so on. If you use external libraries or a framework, you indeed have to be mindful of the license it comes under, because it may affect the licensing of your program (LGPL vs GPL comes into play here), but of course that’s only an issue if you distribute the software.
But … that’s not what Red Hat is doing with RHEL, and this is why your comparison is invalid. They are not merely distributing some independently written python or C programs, they are distributing the actual FOSS software itself or derivative works thereof. RHEL includes things like the linux kernel, systemd, selinux, gcc, glibc, all the gnu utilities, bash, python, perl, … all this is code under FOSS licenses that Red Hat does not own the copyright to, so they can’t just choose to relicense it and they need to obey the respective FOSS licenses. I don’t think it’s an unreasonable position at all to expect companies to obey the licenses of the software that they use or distribute. In fact I think it’s the only position you can take.
OK, so is Redhat breaking any license? Do you really think a company like Redhat would open itself to thousands of lawsuits like that. The CEO already explained that this is totally legal and covered by GPL. They are in fact distributing the source to the people receiving the product. This is exactly what GPL says. They are not forced to open the source code to people who aren’t getting the distributed software.
What is your complaint then? They are not breaking any law and they are following the GPL license.
I was using the webframework/language as examples because you said this wasn’t a matter of law but a matter of principle. So why does the principle apply to Redhat but not the million other products that totally depend on FOSS on their core?
So many projects do in fact distribute the FOSS, but they use more permissive licenses like MIT, Apache or LGPL. BUT you’re saying the law is not relevant, what matters is the principle. So why don’t everyone release their code if they depend on FOSS on their core products? Because they aren’t breaking the Apache or MIT licenses? Well, that’s great! Redhar isn’t breaking the GPL license either. Why must Redhat follow whatever subjective principles you have?
— “hey there’s this company creating a commercial product around FOSS. They aren’t breaking any license.”
— “Nice, as long as the licenses aren’t compromised”
— “It’s Redhat”
— “Those mofos! How dare they!”
RedHat is not breaking any licenses, but neither are people who acquire the source code and redistribute it. This is also covered under GPL.