Thank you for the reply and I appreciate the graphs. Most of those stats would benefit greatly, and would present a better picture if the units were per person though.
I’m actually more impressed with some of the other countries in those images, that managed to achieve some of those things with a fraction of China’s population.
It’s hard to show historical graphs in a post, but even 15 years ago China was at the bottom of all these lists.
The thing that makes China so impressive is that almost all of that capacity has been built out in under 2 decades with no signs of slowing (in fact it’s all actually accelerating).
Sure the other countries on there have a better per-capita green energy utilization for the moment, but those other countries are also fully developed and have had the capacity and opportunity to expand their green sectors for 50+ years.
Another thing that isn’t shown here is that China manufactures 90% of the worlds solar panels. Meaning that even though they’re still #1 for energy production, their flooding of the solar market with cheap panels has allowed dozens of countries to take advantage of that and expand their solar energy generation capacity while offloading the work of manufacturing (and the carbon energy costs of manufacturing) to China.
Another thing is that population doesn’t really mean anything, Africa and India are both close in population to China but are well behind everyone else. China is a developing nation still and is only at the beginning of its development into a modern nation. Their model is heavily export focused and their rapid development is being shared with those regions.
As they continue to advance in these sectors, they’ll become a development model for India and Africa. Either that or America ends the world because they want to export LNG
I come to these discussions in good faith, because I want to believe that some people are not here to spew propaganda and maybe are just bad with statistics… But somehow it always ends with “America bad” (which I don’t necessarily dispute, but I think is just lazy).
Lets break some things down:
I think that per person data is important, otherwise it’s just obfuscation.
These forest growth numbers are great, but they don’t tell the whole picture that even with this rate of growth, China will still have less forest than the US in 30 years time.
‘Nuclear plants most in production’ don’t mean much as it can take forever to finish and even then China will have less than France or US.
‘Most high speed railroad’ it’s impressive, but isn’t it wasteful to build something just for boasting? The railway is highly underutilised - only 60% use (and that’s with the big skew for the major urban centres, some lines barely meet 10%).
To build the three gorges dam 1.3 million people were displaced, and between 70k to 230k died.
China has one of the worst health and safety standards in the world. The death toll in manufacturing and construction is FOUR times higher than the global average.
What is an acceptable death toll for you? Because China seems to have a very high tolerance. Does the end goal justify the means? You can’t get away with this high percentage of death in democratic countries from your examples, where the electorate has more power to say “no thanks”.
Anyways, I think China is doing a lot of good steps for the environment, and it pushes other countries to compete. But saying that China is the only one that can save us, while burning 53% of the world’s coal is ridiculous.
All I’ve found in Western media are reports of 100 worker deaths during the building process, according to Chinese state media. Absolutely no idea where claims of hundreds of thousands of deaths come from; I was expecting RFA or VoA or something but even they don’t discuss it.
Thank you for the reply and I appreciate the graphs. Most of those stats would benefit greatly, and would present a better picture if the units were per person though. I’m actually more impressed with some of the other countries in those images, that managed to achieve some of those things with a fraction of China’s population.
It’s hard to show historical graphs in a post, but even 15 years ago China was at the bottom of all these lists.
The thing that makes China so impressive is that almost all of that capacity has been built out in under 2 decades with no signs of slowing (in fact it’s all actually accelerating).
Sure the other countries on there have a better per-capita green energy utilization for the moment, but those other countries are also fully developed and have had the capacity and opportunity to expand their green sectors for 50+ years.
Another thing that isn’t shown here is that China manufactures 90% of the worlds solar panels. Meaning that even though they’re still #1 for energy production, their flooding of the solar market with cheap panels has allowed dozens of countries to take advantage of that and expand their solar energy generation capacity while offloading the work of manufacturing (and the carbon energy costs of manufacturing) to China.
Another thing is that population doesn’t really mean anything, Africa and India are both close in population to China but are well behind everyone else. China is a developing nation still and is only at the beginning of its development into a modern nation. Their model is heavily export focused and their rapid development is being shared with those regions.
As they continue to advance in these sectors, they’ll become a development model for India and Africa. Either that or America ends the world because they want to export LNG
I come to these discussions in good faith, because I want to believe that some people are not here to spew propaganda and maybe are just bad with statistics… But somehow it always ends with “America bad” (which I don’t necessarily dispute, but I think is just lazy).
Lets break some things down:
What is an acceptable death toll for you? Because China seems to have a very high tolerance. Does the end goal justify the means? You can’t get away with this high percentage of death in democratic countries from your examples, where the electorate has more power to say “no thanks”.
Anyways, I think China is doing a lot of good steps for the environment, and it pushes other countries to compete. But saying that China is the only one that can save us, while burning 53% of the world’s coal is ridiculous.
This is bullshit. US/West would celebrate this news piece every year if there are that many deaths.
All I’ve found in Western media are reports of 100 worker deaths during the building process, according to Chinese state media. Absolutely no idea where claims of hundreds of thousands of deaths come from; I was expecting RFA or VoA or something but even they don’t discuss it.
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the mental gymnastics liberals have to go through to not say anything good about china lmao
Death to America