Image Transcription:
A tweet from the George Takei Twitter account which states:
"A Democrat was in the White House when my family was sent to the internment camps in 1941. It was an egregious violation of our human and civil rights.
It would have been understandable if people like me said they’d never vote for a Democrat again, given what had been done to us.
But being a liberal, being a progressive, means being able to look past my own grievances and concerns and think of the greater good. It means working from within the Democratic party to make it better, even when it has betrayed its values.
I went on to campaign for Adlai Stevenson when I became an adult. I marched for civil rights and had the honor of meeting Dr. Martin Luther King. I fought for redress for my community and have spent my life ensuring that America understood that we could not betray our Constitution in such a way ever again.
Bill Clinton broke my heart when he signed DOMA into law. It was a slap in the face to the LGBTQ community. And I knew that we still had much work to do. But I voted for him again in 1996 despite my misgivings, because the alternative was far worse. And my obligation as a citizen was to help choose the best leader for it, not to check out by not voting out of anger or protest.
There is no leader who will make the decision you want her or him to make 100 percent of the time. Your vote is a tool of hope for a better world. Use it wisely, for it is precious. Use it for others, for they are in need of your support, too."
End Transcription.
The last paragraph I find particularly powerful and something more people really should take into account.
Hoo boy. Against my better judgment, I’ll wade into this pool.
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If voting for either party gets you the same result, fascists wouldn’t be so focused on elections and trying so hard to take the vote away.
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Withholding your vote doesn’t do anything. When has losing an election pushed either party left?
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Voting doesn’t prevent you from engaging in other forms of direct action.
Both parties suck. People will needlessly suffer and die no matter who wins. But there are also people who will suffer and die under one part but not the other, and the same can’t be said the other way around. Our democracy is fundamentally flawed, but voting is a tool at our disposal, and we’re in no position to turn anything down.
Before Obama, I could still remain quiet when people said “voting for anyone is implicit approval,” or whatever - and for the most part, they’re right - voting is a pretty low level of change.
I voted for Obama because even if he is a bit of a tool, he’s black, and now a huge group of minority kids saw someone who looks like them in the white house. I voted for him not because of the “HOPE” on his signs but literally to give black kids hope. (And yeah, for the most part, it’s false hope, just like it is for white kids, welcome to the club.) He was a positive symbol and, if it’s a symbol who is also a centrist Democrat, that’s better then a centrist Democrat that isn’t a positive symbol. And a shit ton better than Mitt Romney or whoever the other guy was.
And then Trump happened, and any respect for the “don’t vote” viewpoint drained out. If you still think both parties are the same at this point, you might want to start asking yourself what else is going on with you - because “not great” is not identical to “fucking terrible”…
Biden isn’t doing what I want him to do - health care, income inequality, corruption in Congress, etc - but the infrastructure bill isn’t a bad thing. It’s actually a good thing, we need it. We need a lot more, but 1 > 0.
Also, to be blunt… we’ve seen this before. We know from recent history what happens when the DNC nominates the safe, centrist, establishment candidate, who fails to appeal to voters and loses to a Republican. That was 2016. Hillary Clinton lost to Trump. And who did the DNC rally behind right before Super Tuesday? That’s right… Joe Biden.
The amount of people in this thread who don’t understand how our voting system works is too damn high
You’re absolutely correct in your points
Especially the “against my better judgement” part, this comment section went to hell really quick
Withholding your vote doesn’t do anything.
Well, not anything good. But it’s mathematically equivalent to half a vote for the major party candidate you like least.
Personally I’d much rather have the candidate I like the least have a harder time winning
Ideally they’d even lose
Edit: Damn autocorrect changed my comment a lot with one simple wrong correction.
Permission to copy and paste this elsewhere for the future?
If you think it would help, sure thing!
It’s concise and matches how I feel about things, so hopefully it will help if/when I come across people talking about how not voting is actually the best choice
Thanks! I actually took time to make my comment shorter, so I’m glad I successfully got straight to the points. :)
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“Democrats have always fucked me over but I keep voting for them because the alternative is actively more harmful”.
No, I don’t find it touching nor powerful. This is a celebration of the failure of the 2 party system.
When you roll out the feasible alternative let me know. Until then, I’ll be voting for the candidate whose rallies don’t break out in chants of “kill f*ggots, kill all transgenders”
When you figure out a means of political activity that doesn’t involve refining the capitalist regime as it stands, let me know. Until then, I won’t be voting for candidates who help slaughter innocent people around the world.
So you won’t use your vote to help less people die?
Ah, so you are never voting again.
That’s not what he said and you know it, shut up.
Ok
Ok. And your point is? Not voting isn’t going to do shit. You are not going to change the system by not participating. That’s a losing strategy.
Wrong. It’s “democrats advanced in fits and starts, sometimes stumbling and falling, but heading in the direction of the finish line. I keep voting for them because the other guys are trying to set off a dirty bomb on the race track.”
Winner takes it all it the biggest bullshit ever. Anything but popular vote is worth jack shit.
I mean straight popular vote is also winner take all just not skewed by weird slavery shit counting rules
Not based. This is the same sentiment I’ve seen on the politics community here on lemmy, and in snapshots of twitter posts posted to lemmy as well. Same boring rhetoric. “suck it up and vote for the lesser of two evils”
Unfortunately here in the US with our current voting system, voting for the lesser of 2 evils is the best strategy once it’s election day.
Primaries are for voting with your heart, election day is for strategic voting.
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The system doesn’t actually require any collaboration to eventually become a two-party race. It’s pretty much statistically assured if voters behave rationally, but with limited information.
Live and served here. I’m aware of the song and dance. Just saying George isn’t providing some sort of revelation. It’s the same bullshit every 4 years
Edit: not sure why my original comment was removed, even after scrolling through this community’s rules. But it’s cool, the other 196 is better anyway.
You could also organize outside the electoral system. In fact it’s the only way to keep politicians accountable
Who says you can’t organize if you vote?
Organize and get people to loudly push for some things you want in our country AND vote
Doing both is important
Edit: I accidentally a word
Welcome to politics. Strategic voting is the name of the game, especially with FPTP voting systems.
“suck it up and vote for the lesser of two evils”
But that’s the smartest thing to do in a two party system
You’re the people he’s talking about and you’re oblivious.
And you’re blocked.
Lol
Wild how he doesn’t even mention the possibility of voting for a third party. I mean I get that there a reasons one might stick with the “lesser of two evils” approach, but this tweet makes it seem like there just isn’t any other way.
Wild how he doesn’t even mention the possibility of voting for a third party.
Why would he? The US voting system makes third party candidates an impossibility. It’s not a viable option.
To elaborate a little further: Our First Past the Post system makes third party candidates a spoiler candidate for the party they most closely resemble
Say you’ve got 3 people running for a position. Person A and Person B are fairly similar but differ in some key points, Person C is the exact opposite of Person A.
The election happens and this is the result: Person A gets 30%, Person B gets 30%, and Person C gets 40%. Person C wins, even though 60% of people didn’t want Person C.
This is why third party candidates are usually considered “spoiler candidates”
Correction, the collusion between Dems and Republicans makes third party candidacy an impossibility.
Well, sorta but also not really.
Neither party seems to have any interest in reforming the voting system to something more representative. So in that way I guess you could say they are colluding, but more reasonably they simply share a common incentive.
But it really is the system itself that makes third party candidates basically impossible. It incentivises people to vote strategically, not for the party they want but rather against the party they don’t want. That system is eventually sure to collapse into a two-party system.
I understand that. What baffles me is how willing he is to accept the FPTP system they have in the US, especially with his history. Given the beginning of his tweet, you’d think he’d conclude with an appeal to reform the system, to make it viable to vote for third parties. Instead, he acts as if the system was a constant of the universe, not a man made one that can quite easily be changed. He lays down the perfect argument for a reform of the system, without actually speaking out in favor of it. Thats whats wild to me.
That’s because unless they get rid of the first-past-the-post system, it’s 100% wasted.
Unfortunately, FPTP also keeps the existing dominant parties complacent in only having one enemy, so they don’t actually have to try very hard. So changing it is unlikely to gather a lot of steam, either. “Lesser evil” sucks, but is ironically a lesser evil than just throwing away the vote entirely.
I disagree with this mindset.
In a purely hypothetical scenario say 10% of people vote for the third party candidate, and this candidate has policies which neither of the two main parties have, say more green policies. When the results come in and one of the main parties lose by 5%, they’re going to start thinking about adopting a few more green policies to capture some of that third party vote for the next election.
Voting third party can absolutely change the policies of the main parties, it happened in the UK with UKIP - a party which had less than 10% of the vote and no chance of a majority, but it spooked the big parties enough that they promised a referendum on EU membership.
Sadly this doesn’t work if one of the parties is threatening to do all they can to break down the democracy before you get your chance to see the results at the next vote.
Disagree as much as you want, that certainly still seems to be how shit works. If I’m wrong - awesome! Show me how.
He does. A “protest vote” is the same thing as throwing away your vote for a third party in the general election for president.
George is okay with supporting homophobes and bigots as long as they’re his homophobes and bigots.
Fucking idiot.
I’m not the one explaining away my support of my side’s bigots by saying they’re less bigot than the other bigots. But go off.
Then who is? George isn’t.
In a democracy, if there is no alternative we have to vote for the lesser of the evil. It’s better to keep things worse, than to make it more worse, if there is no alternative. If an alternative is there, then absolutely. We should all be encouraging an alternative system in a democracy. But if nothing’s is available, then this.
That’s the logical answer in the short term, but it also makes you a “safe” voter that the Democrats don’t have to care about in the long term.
Don’t promise them your support in advance. Be a “swing” voter and make it clear to the party that if they want your vote they’ll have to earn it.
On the safe voter part I agree. Never promise anything. Ask question on what developments have the parties brought to a place.
BTW I am not American, but democracy is democracy doesn’t matter the place. Earth is Earth.
Then let me be the first to apologize for whatever evils the American State has done to you and your compatriots in my name.
That said, elections are fundamentally not a process for selecting leaders. That’s merely the method by which they accomplish their purpose, to legitimize the State’s claim to power.
There’s no option in the “democratic process” that represents those of us who see a State as illegitimate. It’s most obvious when you consider the elections in North Korea or Russia, but “democracy” as implemented cannot be “democracy” as we are taught to understand the term. Without a “none of the above” box that no government ever provides (because it would defeat their purpose for holding elections), our only choice is whether or not to participate in our own disenfranchisement.
No need to apologise. There is no hatred between the general public of any country. It’s the warmongers who spoil the relations.
This upcoming election I’m voting for independent or 3rd party. Fuck blue or red.
This is how democracies die. Fascists come to power when their opposition fractures. I’m not telling you what to do, I’m just telling you how it is. Choose wisely.
Trumps gonna win because of people like you not voting Democrat. Well done
Shoo, they’re breaking out the pablum early this time.
Rather than doing your duty to the democrats, why not recognize the weakness their propaganda indicates and use it to force them to take policy positions you want to get your support?
Because only a priv would understand the current situation as an opportunity to force concessions?
You’re fucking admitting to all of us that your brain is in the space of leveraging that people will die to make them satisfy your demands, which means you probably expect to be fucking fine and dandy once us Queer folks PoC and Women are done being punished for prioritizing our own survival over reminding you once again that Biden passed the most impactful climate legislation in a generation, the most impactful welfare and infrastructure legislation since the great society, made a strong push to codify roe that died in the Senate, and has used his relatively pro-israel public appearance to get dozens of Palestinians held hostage in Israel freed and won Gaza the ability to access their offshore natural gas once the war is over.
If you feel confident to negotiate, negotiating is an act of betrayal. Show literally an ounce of the solidarity you so often demand of the rest of us.
First things first: I will never vote for joe Biden for any office. Never have and never will. You’re not gonna convince me to.
With that out of the way, you can use the fact that a party which doesn’t line up perfectly with your values needs your support to get them to take action that you want. It’s not cruel or a betrayal. If you think there’s something the democrats can be doing better, now’s the time to get it because they need you.
There’s not a single reason to just vote blue no matter who to use a turn of phrase from years past. If you think Biden and the democrats are doing a good job then push them to go even farther. If you think they’re doing a bad job but better than a different party, push them to do a better job.
What’s great about using elections as a time to try to get concessions is it gives people who feel left out by parties a chance to be brought in. If the party makes good on their promises then they can get voters for life!
Doesn’t a better democrat party with new support sound better than slogging out to the polls to vote against someone?
Imagine being such a priv that you have to make it between for or against a candidate instead of being for all the people who’ll be put in life threatening danger when you don’t show the solidarity you priv self proclaimed holier thans demand from us lowlies for whom the difference is lived every fucking day.
Does Biden providing aid to Israel suck? Yeah. You know what sucks more? Having TruckNut McGee feel comfortable calling my Palestinian ass that lives here right now a Sand Nigger and socking me in the street before telling me to be grateful he didn’t bring a rope.
That’s what you support when you don’t vote, or when you vote third party. That’s not shaming, that’s not bullying, that’s the mathematical fact that your non vote is the same as voting for what happens without it, and the moral fact that being fine not voting or voting third party is admitting you live where you’ll be fine whatever happens to us lowlies you deign to tone police and negotiate with as if we’re on equal terms.
MLK wrote the Letter talking about white folks who talk the talk but hesitate or even get hostile when asked to walk the walk and show solidarity, you are the fucking picture of that Ally on Paper ya fuckin’ priv.
What is a priv? You’ve called me one about a half dozen times and I don’t know what it means.
I think using a vote strategically is fine, but I also think not voting out of protest is fine.
The point of voting is it is your choice, and the logic for how each individual determines how to use it is not my concern.
Each vote accounts for so little impact on the political process that individually they are literally meaningless, but at the same time, that sentiment being held by too many people literally breaks the concept of voting from functioning entirely. It is almost paradoxical.
I think it is best to keep moral arguments and opinions about how other people vote to a minimum, and try to keep the conversation more about the candidates themselves.
You have to spoil your ballot of you want to not vote in protest.
Every ballot that is cast is counted, even spoiled ones. But if you don’t cast a ballot at all, it cannot be counted and no one will ever know of your “protest”.
The only valid way to protest by not voting is to spoil your ballot.
I think using a vote strategically is fine, but I also think not voting out of protest is fine.
It’s amazing how you contradict yourself in your first sentence.
So basically I’m voting democrat so our government doesnt start killing (more) vulnerable people. What a great system
Complain today about fewer options.
Complain tomorrow about Führer options.
It’s ok to complain. The complaints are valid. Still vote and encourage others to vote.
If your two choices are between a 99% fascist and a 98% fascist. Vote for the 98% fascist.
Vote for the most useful option, then go make a difference in local politics or wherever you can actually influence anything. Limiting your interactions with politics to whining isn’t going to change anything for the better and is definitely not going to get rid of Republicans nor Democrats.
This would all be resolved if America just changed first past the post voting.
We’ll only change it with enough push from citizens
Push for a new system (like ranked choice or STAR) in your state for state elections and we can likely make it popular enough to get it to the national stage
My father beat me when I was a kid, he ran for child services president and I voted for him. I heard that the other guy beat his kids more, so I really had a moral duty to vote for my dad. You guys, it’s really important to vote for the guy who beats his kids less.
My local mayor wants to increase funding for the public transit, but he didn’t say ACAB, so I’m not gonna vote for him even if the other other guy is gonna slash the public transit funding by half 😤😤
