I’ll take this as a good faith question, and the short answer is that gender is a lot more complicated than that.
Yes there are two archetypal roles involved in sexual reproduction, but even that isn’t so simple. There isn’t just one feature that defines male or female, but a combination of traits including chromosomes, gametes, anatomy, hormones, etc. In the real world, some folks are born with features that don’t all agree with one or another archetype. Intersex people aren’t common, about 1 in 2,000, but their existence proves that sex isn’t just a binary. There’s diversity to sex that requires a more complicated scheme to account for everybody.
Gender, likewise, doesn’t follow the one-or-the-other model. Most folks are cisgender, but some folks have a gender that doesn’t agree with what people assume their sex is, or no gender at all, or a gender that doesn’t fit into the man/woman spectrum. It gets complicated quickly because gender is where sex and society intersect. Some cultures have different expectations based on gender, and some even have more than two recognized genders. That’s why we say “gender is a social construct”, because we all get to define for ourselves what it means to be a man, woman, or otherwise. That’s how gender is constructed, it’s a social project we all engage in whether we realize it or not.
their existence proves that sex isn’t just a binary.
This argument has always struck me as odd as in virtually every other discussion we would accept that the exception ‘proves the rule’.
Humans have two hands, except when they don’t due to something impacting fetal development.
Humans have two kidneys, except when they don’t due to an error in fetal development or as a result of disease or injury.
There’s diversity to sex that requires a more complicated scheme to account for everybody.
Or just let the exceptions be exceptions with no social stigma rather than refusing to recognise that the vast majority of humans, and mammals, can be accurately identified as one of two distinct sexes.
Biological sex != gender. There’s not even 2 classes of biological sex. There are men born with biological female organs and women born with biologically men’s organs. We all as humans do share common organs, one of which happens to be the nipple.
Regardless of what your actual biological sex is a gender is simply a social construct used to identify someone. A person who is “non-binary” feels that their gender does not conform to what you would typically expect of either male or female based on appearances or behavior.
Anyone can decide what gender they feel like. Most people identify with one of the major genders, but many people don’t for multiple possible biological reasons. Nobody is in good faith identifying as a gender they don’t actually feel like.
Sure. If you define the word gender as identifying what you feel like, then it makes sense from that perspective. If I felt like my gender is someone who feels like a cat, that would be my gender then.
It was a genuine question, and I listened to your opinion. My own opinion differs from your own. This happens sometimes in conversations. To me, that doesn’t mean that we need to leave the discussion or downvote eachother. :)
The thing is, these conversations usually go the same way. People like yourself try to step in and guide people who ask questions. And if they don’t 100% share your own opinion, then you feel it’s a waste of time. And also you think you know me. I must be a troll. Right?
It’s a bit funny, you have to admit. Online discussions are not sniper battles. Or they shouldn’t be.
Maybe I have a different point of view on this because of my own upbringing and my own experiences. Seems pretty likely, no? And maybe one comment online will not change all of that in an instant. Also makes sense, no?
So just relax… We don’t have to fight online. I promise.
Their argument is that “gender is just a social construct”, without acknowledging that some of the most paramount aspects of human existence are “social constructs” (i.e language) and that gender is one of them. And without addressing why sexual taboos (like public nudity) are gendered - to them its a form of irrational injustice. But expore the social ramifications -through real and hypothetical examples- and you quickly find that it is indeed rational to treat bodies different according to their gender, and that human social psychology does have strong roots in human phsyiognamy.
Poster below gave you all the answer you’d ever need on this question you beg… If you have any integrity, add a note to your original comment to clarify that you were mistaken in your initial assumption and why.
I don’t understand this. We have two genders, how is it not binary and how is it made up? Honest question.
I’ll take this as a good faith question, and the short answer is that gender is a lot more complicated than that.
Yes there are two archetypal roles involved in sexual reproduction, but even that isn’t so simple. There isn’t just one feature that defines male or female, but a combination of traits including chromosomes, gametes, anatomy, hormones, etc. In the real world, some folks are born with features that don’t all agree with one or another archetype. Intersex people aren’t common, about 1 in 2,000, but their existence proves that sex isn’t just a binary. There’s diversity to sex that requires a more complicated scheme to account for everybody.
Gender, likewise, doesn’t follow the one-or-the-other model. Most folks are cisgender, but some folks have a gender that doesn’t agree with what people assume their sex is, or no gender at all, or a gender that doesn’t fit into the man/woman spectrum. It gets complicated quickly because gender is where sex and society intersect. Some cultures have different expectations based on gender, and some even have more than two recognized genders. That’s why we say “gender is a social construct”, because we all get to define for ourselves what it means to be a man, woman, or otherwise. That’s how gender is constructed, it’s a social project we all engage in whether we realize it or not.
This argument has always struck me as odd as in virtually every other discussion we would accept that the exception ‘proves the rule’.
Humans have two hands, except when they don’t due to something impacting fetal development.
Humans have two kidneys, except when they don’t due to an error in fetal development or as a result of disease or injury.
Or just let the exceptions be exceptions with no social stigma rather than refusing to recognise that the vast majority of humans, and mammals, can be accurately identified as one of two distinct sexes.
Biological sex != gender. There’s not even 2 classes of biological sex. There are men born with biological female organs and women born with biologically men’s organs. We all as humans do share common organs, one of which happens to be the nipple.
Regardless of what your actual biological sex is a gender is simply a social construct used to identify someone. A person who is “non-binary” feels that their gender does not conform to what you would typically expect of either male or female based on appearances or behavior.
Sure but there are two major biological sexes. I can understand how gender can be defined as something else though.
Non-binary can decide what gender they feel like.
Anyone can decide what gender they feel like. Most people identify with one of the major genders, but many people don’t for multiple possible biological reasons. Nobody is in good faith identifying as a gender they don’t actually feel like.
Sure. If you define the word gender as identifying what you feel like, then it makes sense from that perspective. If I felt like my gender is someone who feels like a cat, that would be my gender then.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you had a genuine question, but I now feel that was a mistake.
It was a genuine question, and I listened to your opinion. My own opinion differs from your own. This happens sometimes in conversations. To me, that doesn’t mean that we need to leave the discussion or downvote eachother. :)
The thing is, these conversations usually go the same way. People like yourself try to step in and guide people who ask questions. And if they don’t 100% share your own opinion, then you feel it’s a waste of time. And also you think you know me. I must be a troll. Right?
It’s a bit funny, you have to admit. Online discussions are not sniper battles. Or they shouldn’t be.
Maybe I have a different point of view on this because of my own upbringing and my own experiences. Seems pretty likely, no? And maybe one comment online will not change all of that in an instant. Also makes sense, no?
So just relax… We don’t have to fight online. I promise.
Nor in person. Just let people be, right? If it doesn’t harm, let people do it.
Everyone on here is stupid and wrong.
Their argument is that “gender is just a social construct”, without acknowledging that some of the most paramount aspects of human existence are “social constructs” (i.e language) and that gender is one of them. And without addressing why sexual taboos (like public nudity) are gendered - to them its a form of irrational injustice. But expore the social ramifications -through real and hypothetical examples- and you quickly find that it is indeed rational to treat bodies different according to their gender, and that human social psychology does have strong roots in human phsyiognamy.
From the person I talked to above, they are using gender to describe how they feel about who they are. So maybe it’s just a word difference.
I’m very downvoted for being in this thread though and so are you. It’s a bit funny.
A mod deleted my comment it seems.
Anyway, guess I leave this strange thread and leave people here with their beliefs.
Poster below gave you all the answer you’d ever need on this question you beg… If you have any integrity, add a note to your original comment to clarify that you were mistaken in your initial assumption and why.
But, doesn’t seem likely that you will.
It’s interesting that you sound so angry. Is it because of gender issues in your life, it made you bitter?