Martin Scorsese is urging filmmakers to save cinema, by doubling down on his call to fight comic book movie culture.
The storied filmmaker is revisiting the topic of comic book movies in a new profile for GQ. Despite facing intense blowback from filmmakers, actors and the public for the 2019 comments he made slamming the Marvel Cinematic Universe films — he called them theme parks rather than actual cinema — Scorsese isn’t shying away from the topic.
“The danger there is what it’s doing to our culture,” he told GQ. “Because there are going to be generations now that think … that’s what movies are.”
GQ’s Zach Baron posited that what Scorsese was saying might already be true, and the “Killers of the Flower Moon” filmmaker agreed.
“They already think that. Which means that we have to then fight back stronger. And it’s got to come from the grassroots level. It’s gotta come from the filmmakers themselves,” Scorsese continued to the outlet. “And you’ll have, you know, the Safdie brothers, and you’ll have Chris Nolan, you know what I mean? And hit ’em from all sides. Hit ’em from all sides, and don’t give up. … Go reinvent. Don’t complain about it. But it’s true, because we’ve got to save cinema.”
Scorsese referred to movies inspired by comic books as “manufactured content” rather than cinema.
“It’s almost like AI making a film,” he said. “And that doesn’t mean that you don’t have incredible directors and special effects people doing beautiful artwork. But what does it mean? What do these films, what will it give you?”
His forthcoming film, “Killers of the Flower Moon,” had been on Scorsese’s wish list for several years; it’s based on David Grann’s 2017 nonfiction book of the same name. He called the story “a sober look at who we are as a culture.”
The film tells the true story of the murders of Osage Nation members by white settlers in the 1920s. DiCaprio originally was attached to play FBI investigator Tom White, who was sent to the Osage Nation within Oklahoma to probe the killings. The script, however, underwent a significant rewrite.
“After a certain point,” the filmmaker told Time, “I realized I was making a movie about all the white guys.”
The dramatic focus shifted from White’s investigation to the Osage and the circumstances that led to them being systematically killed with no consequences.
The character of White now is played by Jesse Plemons in a supporting role. DiCaprio stars as the husband of a Native American woman, Mollie Kyle (Lily Gladstone), an oil-rich Osage woman, and member of a conspiracy to kill her loved ones in an effort to steal her family fortune.
Scorsese worked closely with Osage Principal Chief Geoffrey Standing Bear and his office from the beginning of production, consulting producer Chad Renfro told Time. On the first day of shooting, the Oscar-winning filmmaker had an elder of the nation come to set to say a prayer for the cast and crew.
Huh, I remember reading his critique around when Endgame was coming out and thought he just didn’t get it.
Now, after years of the shit the MCU has been pushing out, I see he was ahead of our time.
He was right then too. Nothing has changed
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I was bitterly disappointed even by Endgame. All flash and no substance.
For me, all these movies rely on stakes and villains. As soon as you start fucking around with time nothing has any stakes any more. You can undo anything. Also Josh Brolin doesn’t have the screen presence required for a big bad.
Compare to original Iron Man. Jeff Bridges fills the screen, dominating every scene with cartoonish meme potential. Hugo Weaving, Tom Hiddleston, even Michael Keaton have it… Josh is missing something. He’s not a bad actor by any means, but some roles just aren’t for him.
I think Guardians of the Galaxy is the only MCU franchise that doesn’t hinge on the villain, and it’s actually their most consistent series of movies. Even if the game has made me annoyed at the movies just making Drax and Mantis into fucking morons.
It’s been that way for a loooong time.
Movies became so expensive to produce that studios can’t finance them themselves.
So they turned to the banks.
Banks are by nature risk averse.
So a production company has to submit an application to their bank’s movie financing department like you would when applying for a home loan.
The bank decides whether to finance the movie based on the information submitted: Script, subject matter, director, which stars have committed to the project, etc.
Now if you imagine, people from the banking industry are not artists and creatives and visionaries. They just look at raw investment potential, i.e. Is this proposed production going to pay off the loan with interest?
If there’s any risk, e.g. this has never been done before, or there’s no recognizable franchise branding, or if something could be controversial in a meaningful way, the bank won’t approve the production loan.
So sequels, brand name franchises, with writing committees, are easier to get approvals from the banks, therefore are more likely to make it into production.
That’s why Hollywood doesn’t make daring, experimental, and controversial movies much anymore.
And it’s not just movies.
Hit song analysis systems like Platinum Blue, aka Music XRay, use algorithms to compare new songs to hit songs of the past to rate the chances that they will become hits themselves.
This is why all new songs sound the same and there are so many cover versions.
New songs are scored by hit song analysis system(s) and have to achieve a high score showing how much they resemble previous hit songs before money is allocated for promotion.
That’s… really sad
So in a way it’s going right back to the way things were during the Golden Age of Hollywood. I hope this means more musicals are on the way.
People who disparage Marty forget or don’t know that he has been a fierce proponent and heavy financial supporter of film restoration through companies like Milestone Films for more than three decades now. If you ever enjoyed world cinema, the films of Kalatozov, Pasolini, Buñuel, Murnau and many more, there is a decent chance you were able to enjoy them in good quality through the direct efforts of Martin Scorsese and others.
“Because there are going to be generations now that think … that’s what movies are.”
should be understood in this context as well. We owe him so much gratitude for keeping the language of film alive.
BUT HE INSULTED MARVEL 😠 😡 😡 FUCK HIM AND HIS PRETENTIOUS BULLSHIT! HE’S JUST MAD THAT MARVEL MAKES BILLIONS
I mean, can’t we just have both? On some days I want to see a silly lighthearted action movie and on some days I want to see a heart wrenching story about the deepest darkest recesses of the human mind. It’s not a zero sum game.
We’ve just had the highest grossin opening weekend with Barbenhiemer.
Yes, we can have both. They need to have both otherwise they are only accomodating part of their audience.
The Barbie movie is a perfect example of the balance of pinache and meaning, and mainstream movies ought to learn from that.
And that lead actress, whoever she is, should totally get an Oscar for her performance this year.
Something can be lighthearted or action based and still be interesting film making in contrast to the paint by numbers MCU films and some others.
It’s pure action, but Fury Road is an example of a simple action movie that had thought put into the editing, cinematography, etc. Barbie is light hearted but similarly had some ideas to play with.
I hate super hero movies …do you know what I do? I don’t watch them…there’s nothing to be saved …studios will stop making those terrible movies once people stop watching them…if there is a lot of audience there’s no meaning in stop producing…
Damn, and here’s Scorsese who cant help but keep watching these movies. Why didn’t he think of not watching them?
What we really need is a nonprofit organization that rents out equipment and set space to directors so they don’t have to turn to big movie studios to get their projects made.
And we need federated online independent movie portals so people know where to find them.
Couldn’t agree more. I enjoyed some of the superhero movies from the early 2000s because they had good stories, they were clearly made by people passionate about them and they felt novel at the time. Things went downhill over the next decade or so and then I saw The Avengers and thought it was one of the worst movies I’ve ever seen and couldn’t understand why anyone would like it. Further, the people who did like it, all told me the same thing, that you need to watch half a dozen other movies first. Why? Who in their right mind makes that decision as a producer? The Avengers is a movie with no character arcs, no plot build up, no introduction, and nothing the characters do feels like it has any weight and you know they’re more or less invincible. It’s boring garbage and people love it to death. I haven’t really watched many superhero movies since, especially Marvel.
Who in their right mind makes that decision as a producer?
Business-people obviously and sadly. I mean movies have always been a business first, but since there are now basically only 2 or three large companies left with a much larger share of the income they can much better predict the expected income. Everything becomes more efficient. Before with thousands of little studios competing each individual project was kind of hustling around in all kinds of directions. It was hit or miss at random basically. And a small studio doesn’t do focus-grouping in order to increase a movies financial success - that would be much too expensive for a small project. Those things only make sense financially if your movie is fairly large OR your company already has a well oiled marketing-department that focus-groups for basically every movie automatically. But with focus-groups you obviously always aim for what most people like. It’s like the lowest denominator. That’s why so many things feel so boring in marvel/disney-productions. There’s no too room for random happy accidents.
I still have hopes for cinema though, since the incredible rise of the A24 brand in recent years for me is a clear signal that people are fed up with this marvel/disney-monoculture-assembly-line that clogges up the cinemas. One major aspect of the disney-death-star is that Disney basically prevents other productions from materializing. They even prevent some of their own projects from materializing as their planning shows them that N large movies a year is about the most they can extract from the movie-going audience. So they will not produce more big budget blockbusters, because that would only waste money. (If that doesn’t make sense think about this: the more blockbuster you release each year the less it will be watched as you reach a saturation at a certain point. As a studio you try to release big-budget movies at times at which they don’t have to compete with similar movies. Disney being the biggest player - aka the “disney-death-star” that has gobbled up pixar/marvel/star-wars and the entire 20th century fox IP/franchises - is defining what is and isn’t possible to be released during a year (and making a profit with reasonable likelihood)).
Similar with competitors: They know that their big budget movie will have to compete with e.g. Marvels new this-and-that that weekend (or another Disney release at another time) and will not produce a movie. Disney is clogging up the cinemas with their grey goo.
A24 simply made movies that are different and not aimed at everyone. That simple idea was e extremely radical.
Who in their right mind makes that decision as a producer?
A producer who wants to make billions?
Further, the people who did like it, all told me the same thing, that you need to watch half a dozen other movies first. Why?
Eff that! Those people dont understand superhero comics. Nobody who picks up a Spider-Man comic starts back at the beginning, back in 1962. What makes Marvel comics interesting to those who enjoy Marvel comics is that despite the comic being about one (or a team) superhero, it feels like theres events happening in the background, and past and future events that has happened and shaped the character. Their world feels more alive because you might not know what happened in another comic series but still get references to it. MCU manages to do this in miniature. You CAN watch every movie, but you shouldnt have to. The story stands alone despite there being references to stuff that you might not know about. And that makes it better than DCU movies.
I dont want to go back to boring, stand-alone movies with generic loser action heroes who can do superhero stuff like taking down jet planes despite pretending not to have superhero powers, and a sequel after another sequel then reboot. I mean, someone recently complained about getting tired of the John Wick movies… Like we’ve gotten 4 movies. 2 hours every second year isnt something to get tired of… 7 years of 20 episodes each is getting close to tiresome, if you enjoy it like you said you did.
I want a continious story in a continious world. I find that fun entertainment. And I’m sad that some Oscar-baiting movie producer think this isnt what movies can be.
Gross, I can’t get behind a single thing you said.
And thats natural. We cant all enjoy the same stuff. :)
I just want to show that theres comic fans out there who actually enjoy having the comicbook movies we dreamt about when we were kids. And got disappointed over and over when the movie was so loosely based on the source material that it wasnt recognisable.
I don’t think that’s true. While the newest MCU movie were not doing as well as they were before, outside these main cinematic universe there have been some great recent comic book movies: the two Spiderverse movies are such absolute delights and some of the best animated movies ever made, and “The Batman” and “Joker” are fantastic as well. (Let’s… not talk about the DCEU.)
I wonder if he would consider “The Departed” to be “manufactured content” by his own definition as well, considering the fact it is much more than merely “inspired” by “Infernal Affairs”. Just sayin’.
Luckily, Disney is way ahead of him on ruining comic book movies.
He’s forgetting movie history…
Back when television got big, cinema had to evolve to survive. The aspect ratio went wide.
This Is Cinerama was more of a tech demo than anything else in 1952, but it was followed by widescreen movie, movies in 1953 with “The Robe” being shot and shown in Cinemascope.
Technicolor too gave a more vibrant color scheme even than previous color film processing that actually came a generation prior, in 1932.
But the widescreen/Technicolor combination provided a must see experience that were the event films of the era and they couldn’t be duplicated at home.
Roll forward 50 years… home theater technology has evolved to a point where theater has to compete with 65" 4K television displays and 7.1 Dolby Atmos surround sound. People need a reason to leave their homes and deal with noisy, disease infected, crowds, high concession prices, expensive tickets, and annoyances like having to pre-pick your own seats instead of just walking in and sitting down.
Streaming is keeping people at home, being able to binge long form content, pausing when necessary. Cinema can’t provide that experirnce.
So it’s going the other way, the “theme park ride experience”. It shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone that the first Pirates of the Carribean movie hit in 2003, pre-dating the wave of comic book movies by, what? 5 or 6 years? 50 years after the first Cinerama movies?
But even that has roots going back to Jurassic Park (1993), Star Wars (1977), and Jaws (1975).
Now, don’t get me wrong, I dearly love “small” films like Scorsese’s After Hours, or even modern stuff like Wes Anderson’s Asteroid City, but there is ZERO compelling reason to see them in a theater. I can get the same experience viewing them on my home theater setup without, you know, blowing $50 to sit in a noisy, uncomfortable theater.
To do THAT, I NEED a spectacle. I need to see something that demands I see it right away, in a theatrical environment. It needs to be a theme park ride.
If your end goal is to make a tight knit drama full of people in rooms talking to each other, well, Downton Abbey and Bridgerton are over there ->
Wow this is the first “pro-marvel” response that actually put some thought into it, and while I don’t personally agree you’ve made the only compelling argument in this entire thread as to why these marvel movies being constantly regurgitated makes any sense.
Now, when it comes to “Marvel regurgitation”, yeah, they could, and should, be doing better. They essentially re-use the same basic plot over and over again and will keep doing it until they hit one that doesn’t make a billion dollars.
I’m a lifelong comic book fan and I love that nerd culture is finally taking over, but I swear to god, I don’t need another superhero movie where the hero and villain have a joined origin story and the villain is just a bigger, badder version of the hero.
Seriously.
Iron Man - Iron Monger
Incredible Hulk - Abomination
Iron Man 2 - Whiplash
Thor - Loki (both sons of Odin)
Captain America - Red Skull
Avengers - Loki + Alien InvasionIron Man 3 - Extremis
Thor: Dark World - Dark Elf invasion
Captain America: Winter Soldier - Bucky
Guardians of the Galaxy - Ronan - First one to break formula.
Avengers: Age of Ultron - Ultron joined origin with Vision.
Ant-Man - Yellow JacketCaptain America: Civil War - Avengers vs. Avengers
Doctor Strange - Kaecilius
Guardians of the Galaxy, Vol. 2 - Pete’s Dad
Spider-Man: Homecoming - Vulture, Pete’s girlfriend’s dad.
Thor: Ragnarok - Hela, evil firstborn sister.
Black Panther - Killmonger
Avengers: Infinity War - Tying it all together.
Ant-Man and the Wasp - Ghost, a victim of Pym tech.
Captain Marvel - Yon-Rogg
Avengers: Endgame - Tying it all together.
Spider-Man: Far From Home - Mysterio (Stark Tech villain vs. Stark Tech hero)
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2 people + snacks, I’m lucky if it’s ONLY $50.
Remember that Martin Scorsese’s last big movie was The Irishman, so he isn’t saving the movie industry either.
Also, Hugo was based on a comic book, so kind of hypocritical.
Notice how there wasn’t 11 sequels and offshoots to Hugo?
The thing I like about the MCU is the shared continuity. I appreciate when the styles differ from the standard as well, but I don’t view multiple sequels and offshoots as a bad thing inherently.
Generally, the issue he’s talking about isn’t caused by comic book movies. It completely predates the modern comic book movie. Comic books are just the current medium for that style of story telling. In the 80s and 90s it was body builder action movies. The 90s and 00s focused more on the slasher film. Now it’s comic book movies.
I honestly think Scorsese is more upset that he personally is having a more difficult time getting backing for his films due to the limited commercial success of his films lately and he’s blaming the viewer and producers rather than looking at himself.
It’s 100% how no one can get backing for anything new. There are hardly any comedies anymore for example.
Notice how Hugo was a flop? Those facts are not mutually exclusive.
It’s kind of amusing that he mentioned Christopher Nolan as a possible ally in his grassroots campaign of filmmakers extolling the virtues of cinema. Christopher Nolan who made a massive comic book movie trilogy. That Christopher Nolan?
Christopher Nolan’s Batman is cut from a different cloth though.
It’s far better than anything Marvel’s ever put out, and isn’t confined to being good “comic superhero movies”, they’re just good movies to the point that even my mother loves the dark knight.
I don’t believe that The Dark Knight trilogy can be compared to anything from Marvel. They are miles ahead in cinematography, directon, use of practical special effects, writing, etc. And there wasn’t 20+ TDK movies.
The fact that you find those movies to be comparable to marvel ones kind of disqualifies all future opinions of yours lol
They are literally comparable as they are both in the same genre this article is about. You realise Batman is a comic book character, and that the article is about comic book movies, yeah? I said nothing about the quality between the two.
“quality is obviously not included when comparisons are made” -Mr Giggity
well, THAT just happened
Awkward
…he’s right behind me, isn’t he?
What a coincidence that he’s got a movie that’s “fighting back” *checks watch* oh right about now! 🙄
Not only is this ridiculous (and untrue) fearmongering about the death of “real cinema” from an old man scared for his own relevance, it’s such blatant self-promotion it’s sickening. Dude would be better served being silent and maintaining his (admittedly deserved) reputation and prestige in the art form instead of tarnishing it with foolish declarations like this.
The Irishman got 9 Oscar nominations so I’m not really sure he’s “fighting for his own relevance.”
“old man scared of his own relevance” being said about one of the greatest directors of all time and probably the greatest alive. Ffs man…
First, I never said he was irrelevant. I said he’s scared that he is. Second, past accomplishments don’t negate current or future accountability for dumb statements like his.
I wonder when we will see a headline “ech@lemm.ee punches back: ‘there’s a place for these movies, they’re great’”. Your body of work is what makes people care about your opinion. The fact that Scorcese has made such outstanding movies is why people think he might know something about them… apparently you think those movies carry no weight but they absolutely do, this post existing in the first place being enough evidence of that already
Won’t someone else stand up for the poor multi, multibillion dollar industry?? Think of the shareholders!!!
That you think Martin is somehow outside of this “poor multi, multibillion dollar industry” that you think I’m defending really says everything.
I didn’t say he was outside it. But I’m not defending him like he’s a victim like you are the marvel trash factory
Where did I do that?
You’re wrong and Martin scorcese is right. First of all, he’s Martin scorcese and you’re not. Also, he speaks the truth and you’re not. He’s articulating exactly what I started feeling around 2003. I get so much shit for not liking superhero movies despite them being absolute dog shit. Nice to finally feel like I’m not the only one.
heres the thing, comic book movies as a concept arent bad but theyre executed terribly. disney and dc both fucking suck horrendously, thwyre unbearable
