This feels weird to say… I really think Microsoft should’ve stuck with trident / edgehtml.
Why? Because you liked the greater browser diversity or because you think it made a better browser?
It was actually one of the most W3C compliant browsers there is, more so than chromium based ones. Unfortunately google’s near monopoly has made websites focus on working in chrome, not on standards.
Diversity. MS had made great strides with EdgeHTML, but it was still pretty bad
But at least opening the browser didn’t take all my ram.
Brave, Vivaldi, Edge and other chromium browsers are forks of the main chromium project. They can decide whether to include or exclude features from mainstream chromium.
As far as I know, Brave and Vivaldi will keep Manifest V2 extension support and said that they will not ship WEI (Web Environment Integrity).
Discord uses a modified version of electron, and it’s also probably an outdated fork as well, although I am not sure about that.
Steam, in the other hand, uses CEF, which they use as a way to render it’s interface and as a replacement of VGUI (a good example of this is the steam game overlay), I don’t know if they will ship WEI if it ever releases in chromium as there isn’t a statement from Valve yet.
Sources:
- ARSTechnica, Chrome’s “Manifest V3” plan to limit ad-blocking extensions is delayed, https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2022/12/chrome-delays-plan-to-limit-ad-blockers-new-timeline-coming-in-march/
- GHacks, Brave confirms it will support Manifest V2 extensions like uBlock Origin even after Chrome drops them, https://www.ghacks.net/2022/09/29/brave-browser-manifest-v2-extensions-after-v3-update/
- Valve Developer Community Wiki, Chromium Embedded Framework, https://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Chromium_Embedded_Framework
- Github, Discord’s Electron Fork, https://github.com/discord/electron
If I missed something, please tell me!
they will not ship WEI
I don’t really understand how this could work.
The whole outcry around WEI is that most of the web wouldn’t work if you didn’t have a browser that supported it.
Not shipping WEI would seem tantamount to just discontinuing.
@DogMuffins @amycatgirl, it is not so simple, there are a huge number of third-party pages that also depend on certain Google services, directly or indirectly. This is what happens when you depend on sponsors, because with this you lose your freedom of decision, especially if you make a pact with the devil, sorry, Google.
Mozilla has already suffered this in its own flesh, becoming a Google mascot from an independent platform, even with Google devs working on Firefox.
Discord’s electron still hasn’t received the patch for spectre/meltdown mitigation in the browser, I doubt they will ever have to deal with manifest V3 or WEI.
Um actually… Opera and Edge weren’t always based on chromium!
Chrome was not always based on chromeium. Chrome was based on Apple WebKit until 2013 when they forked WebKit and made the Blink engine.
Chromium has always existed. Originally it was wrapping web kit and later they forked web kit into blink and diverged from Web kit. Chromium is a level above the engine.
But they are now…
Right but that meme says ‘always has been’.
For the majority of current users, that’s the point. For them it always has been.
Pre-Chromium Edge wasn’t even that bad. Sure, the engine had its issues and there was probably a bit of Edge-specific JS on some websites, but I’m sure they would’ve eventually got there.
But seeing that even Microsoft abandoned making their own browser engine, it goes to show how complex it is to make one nowadays and with new web APIs/features coming out every few weeks it feels like, it’s almost impossible to keep up.
Opera was the shit back in the early days. It could pretend to be any other browser.
Can’t you do that with any browser by changing the user agent?
Yeah:
Sent from Internet Explorer 9
I’m not sure how long you’ve been able to change the user agent in config pages tbh, I just remember Opera had it as an option in the GUI settings and even the right click menu.
Laughts in LibreWolf
Techically an FF fork !
This is the way
Wait STEAM AND DISCORD ARE CHROMIUM?
Visual studio code is chromium.
dies
Yep, just like slack, spotify, and anything else looking fancy while wasting few gigs of ram to just open. They’re built on electron, which is practically chrome without tabs.
Do I still use chromium when I visit the steam website via firefox?
No, its the steam app that runs on Chromium.
Anything that uses the electron framework uses chromium.
Although in the case of steam they are using the Chromium Embedded Framework(CEF) to embed the steam store into their interface, as well as to power the steam overlays browser.
The worst part is, the CEF really is the only way to implement browsers inside other interfaces. OBS uses it too for it’s browser source. There really isn’t any alternatives - if only FF could create it’s own Firefox Embedded Framework to compete, but that’s probably not in the cards due to costs. Mozilla is a not for profit relying on donations and grants.
And electron is a method for creating desktop app interfaces using website code, it’s used for the interfaces of Discord, slack, teams, Streamlabs (yeah they ripped out the OBS Qt interface and replaced it with electron), and sooo many other modern applications that it’s hard to make track of. And it uses essentially the same thing as CEF at its heart.
Basically any website can be wrapped in an electron wrapper to produce a standalone desktop app.
But… but… it’s an open-source…
Edge wasn’t always chromium. It was their own engine and it was great, but too many people complained essentially that it wasn’t chromium so they switched to chromium.
Mozilla doesn’t make it as easy to use the Firefox / Gecko engine in other projects, which doesn’t help for adoption.
I’m way out of the loop, but is the issue that they actively make it difficult to use the rendering engine or is it that the cost to modularize it isn’t worth the payoff to Firefox itself? A subtle but important distinction IMO. I always felt it was the second, but maybe I was being dense?
Back in the days it was possible to use Firefox engine to create apps. It was called XUL. Heck, Firefox itself was just a XUL app! But then they decided it wasn’t worth it for whatever reason and now their engine is tightly integrated.
I believe it might be still possible with UXP - a hard fork made for Pale Moon project.
Pale Moon is based on a derivative of the Gecko rendering engine (Goanna) and builds on a hard fork of the Mozilla code (mozilla-central) called UXP, a XUL-focused application platform that provides the underpinnings of several XUL applications including Pale Moon. This means that the core rendering functions for Pale Moon may differ from Firefox (and other browsers) and websites may display slightly different in this browser.
epiphany and falkon goes away…
well,epiphany isn’t really chromium. it’s webkit instead
Firefox is kept alive by Google default search money AFAIK otherwise why don’t they sue google for showing different search results page in firefox
It gets worse. All Electron applications are Chromium, too.
I just wish Mozilla didn’t just tread Gecko as part of Firefox, the few who tried developing on it came to the conclusion that it’s not sustainable if the engines developer doesn’t give a fuck about you! :/
Damn, that sounds like a real missed opportunity. Hopefully they come around on that one.
Am I crazy for using Opera? I switched from chrome 3 years ago and have enjoyed everything about Opera even their “gamer” browser OperaGX is just a great experience.
The company’s history is not that great, they’ve done some shady shit before. Vivaldi is where the original opera folks are at now.
Yeah, as a long standing fan of Opera - fuck Opera of today and their Chinese overlords.
Well shit…
I haven’t used Opera in a long time, but I used it heavily 20 years ago. Back then you had to pay for it or there was a big ad banner on the toolbar.
It certainly wasn’t always Chromium based, Chrome didn’t come along until 2009 or something. Not sure when that change happened.
If I had to go back to that job I was doing (Internet Help desk) again, I’d consider Opera again. It was fast at navigating an intranet site where all the images were cached locally, but the killer feature for me was the back/forward. If you went back, all the stuff you typed in the form was still there. So you could resubmit it if the session had timed out or there was an issue.
I still use mouse gestures (an Opera thing) via extensions with whatever browser I have used since.
It went downhill when Opera was sold to China and original devs created Vivaldi instead.
You should try Vivaldi. It was made by the founder of Opera and is actually really very good.
Opera is worse than Chrome for privacy.
And yet it is missing tons of electron apps.
This is why I’ve stuck with firefox through thick and thin
