- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
Let’s put it this way; when Microsoft announced its plans to start adding features to Windows 10 once again, despite the operating system’s inevitable demise in October 2025, everyone expected slightly different things to see ported over from Windows 11. Sadly, the latest addition to Windows 10 is one of the most annoying changes coming from Windows 11’s Start menu.
Earlier this year, Microsoft introduced a so-called “Account Manager” for Windows 11 that appears on the screen when you click your profile picture on the Start menu. Instead of just showing you buttons for logging out, locking your device or switching profiles, it displays Microsoft 365 ads. All the actually useful buttons are now hidden behind a three-dot submenu (apparently, my 43-inch display does not have enough space to accommodate them). Now, the “Account Manager” is coming to Windows 10 users.
The change was spotted in the latest Windows 10 preview builds from the Beta and Release Preview Channels. It works in the same way as Windows 11, and it is disabled by default for now because the submenu with sign-out and lock buttons does not work.
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Microsoft believes if they worsen the enshitification of Windows 10, more people will just upgrade to 11 quicker.
I decided to move to Linux and my other family went with Macbooks.
Sadly, I’m at a Microsoft office and do not have this option for my work machine.
It does look like I’ll be forced into Linux on my personal machine before too long, though.
Lucky for me I only use my windows work laptop to remote into Linux.
Similarly, I use my windows work laptop for accessing remote (usually Linux) systems, and a few specific apps that are windows only.
My desktops are Linux (and of course my servers here as well), and I have a windows VM for those tools that are windows only that I need. Which I’ve modified that VM heavily to not have the normal junk from windows.
A recent decision for “security” will require using AAD joined machines only to access email/teams/etc. I was going to make an exception for my machines, then decided against it. My laptop now just sits off to the side, with only teams and outlook running, and its basically all I’ll use it for.
Well, I actually use Linux to remote into my work computer, to remote into Linux. I hate using a laptop at my desk, so I just stuck it on the shelf near the router.
Buy an expensive license
Install the software on hardware you own
Company puts ads on it that weren’t there when you bought the license
2024 is wild. Run Linux.
It’s kinda like AAA game companies waiting for a couple of weeks after a title’s release (and all the reviews are done) before rolling out the micro-transaction market (and the corresponding game-balance adjustments).
Funny how when Windows XP had dial-in activation we warned that this would drift over to games if we tolerated it, and then it did.
100%. Every time consumers tolerate something, it will get worse. On the other hand, it seems so simple to tell people “just don’t buy a product that does X”, but in practice, it’s almost impossible to get people to stop giving these companies money.
but in practice, it’s almost impossible to get people to stop giving these companies money.
This is why consumer-protection regulations are necessary.
They’re doing a good job getting people to move to Linux or MacOS
What’s keeping me running Microsoft? A collection of Steam games that I love. Do they work on Linux now?
93% of the top 1000 Steam games have a Linux rating of Silver (playable with minor issues) or better.
You can check the rating of your own collection here: https://www.protondb.com/dashboardMy entire Steam library works on Linux Mint.
Also, almost every older game, like Deus Ex or Giants: Citizen Kabuto, I can run separately under Wine. The only game that doesn’t quite work is NOLF 1. No music. (I can’t seem to get DirectMusic working properly in Wine yet).
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ShutUp10 for the win.
(Linux for the real win).
ShutUp10 is the equivalent of being in an abusive relationship and telling yourself “it’ll be okay if I just don’t upset them and stay out of their way”. You know it’ll happen again. You’re just in denial and kicking the ball down the road a bit until they do it again. Use it to buy yourself time to make a plan to get out of the relationship. The sooner you leave, the better off you’ll be.
Shutup10 for sure.
Linux, nah. It still can’t do what we need it to do, so it’s not the proper tool for the job.
Chicken and egg. Linux is roughly 4% of the OS space. If more people would get on board, it would become a better tool. I use both. Windows because I have to. Linux because I want to.
Linux missed the mark years ago. It’s not a lack of people using it, it’s a lack of usability for people. You’re blaming users because Linux doesn’t work for them.
My standard response to “just go Linux” :
I keep having to say this, as much as I like Linux for certain things, as a desktop it’s still no competition to Windows, even with this awful shit going on.
As some background - I wrote my first Fortran program on a Sperry Rand Univac (punched cards) in about 1985. Cobol was immediately after Fortran (wish I’d stuck with Cobol).
I had my first UNIX class in about 1990.
I run a Mint laptop (for the hell of it, and I do mean hell) . Update: stopped running Mint on that laptop, it’ll never be viable for the intended use-case. Power management is a joke. Configured as best as possible, walked in the other day and it was dead - as in battery at zero, won’t even boot.
Windows would never do this, no, Windows can never do this. It is incapable of running a battery to zero, it’ll shutoff before then to protect the battery. To really kill it you have to boot to BIOS and let it sit, Windows simply will not let a battery get to zero.
There’s no way even possible via the Mint GUI to config power management for things like low/critical battery conditions /actions. None, nada, zip, not at all. Command line only, in the twenty-first century, something Windows has had since I don’t recall, 95 I think (I was carrying a laptop then, and I believe it had hibernate, sorry, it’s been what, almost thirty years now).
There are many reasons why Linux doesn’t compete with Windows on the desktop - this is just one glaring one.
Now let’s look at Office. Open an Excel spreadsheet with tables in any app other than excel. Tables are something that’s just a given in excel, takes 10 seconds to setup, and you get automatic sorting and filtering, with near-zero effort. The devs of open office refuse to support tables, saying “you should manage data in a proper database app”. While I don’t disagree with the sentiment, no, I’m not setting up a DB in an open-source competitor to Access. That’s just too much effort for simple sorting and filtering tasks, and isn’t realistically shareable with other people. I do this several times a day in excel.
Now there’s that print monitor that’s on by default, and can only be shut up by using a command line. Wtf? Again, in the 21st century?
Networking… Yea, samba works, but how do you clear creds you used one time to connect to a share, even though you didn’t say “save creds”? Oh, yea, command line again or go download an app to clear them for for you. In the 21st century?
Oh, you have a wireless Logitech mouse? Linux won’t even recognize it. You have to search for a solution and go find a third-party download that makes it work. My brand new wireless mouse works on any version of Windows since Win2k (at the least) and would probably work on Win95.
Someone else said it better than me:
Every time I’ve installed Linux as my main OS (many, many times since I was younger), it gets to an eventual point where every single thing I want to do requires googling around to figure out problems. While it’s gotten much better, I always ended up reinstalling Windows or using my work Mac. Like one day I turn it on and the monitor doesn’t look right. So I installed twenty things, run some arbitrary collection of commands, and it works… only it doesn’t save my preferences.
So then I need to dig into .bashrc or .bash_profile (is bashrc even running? Hey let me investigate that first for 45 minutes) and get the command to run automatically… but that doesn’t work, so now I can’t boot… so I have to research (on my phone now, since the machine deathscreens me once the OS tries to load) how to fix that… then I am writing config lines for my specific monitor so it can access the native resolution… wait, does the config delimit by spaces, or by tabs?? anyway, it’s been four hours, it’s 3:00am and I’m like Bryan Cranston in that clip from Malcolm in the Middle where he has a car engine up in the air all because he tried to change a lightbulb.
And then I get a new monitor, and it happens all damn over again. Oh shit, I got a new mouse too, and the drivers aren’t supported - great! I finally made it to Friday night and now that I have 12 minutes away from my insane 16 month old, I can’t wait to search for some drivers so I can get the cursor acceleration disabled. Or enabled. Or configured? What was I even trying to do again? What led me to this?
I just can’t do it anymore. People who understand it more than I will downvote and call me an idiot, but you can all kiss my ass because I refuse to do the computing equivalent of building a radio out of coconuts on a deserted island of ancient Linux forum posts because I want to have Spotify open on startup EVERY time and not just one time. I have tried to get into Linux as a main dev environment since 1997 and I’ve loved/liked/loathed it, in that order, every single time.
I respect the shit out of the many people who are far, far smarter than me who a) built this stuff, and 2) spend their free time making Windows/Mac stuff work on a Linux environment, but the part of me who liked to experiment with Linux has been shot and killed and left to rot in a ditch along the interstate.
Now I love Linux for my services: Proxmox, UnRAID, TrueNAS, containers for Syncthing, PiHole, Owncloud/NextCloud, CasaOS/Yuno, etc, etc. I even run a few Windows VM’s on Linux (Proxmox) because that’s better than running Linux VM’s on a Windows server.
Linux is brilliant for this stuff. Just not brilliant for a desktop, let alone in a business environment.
Linux doesn’t even use a common shell (which is a good thing in it’s own way), and that’s a massive barrier for users.
If it were 40 years ago, maybe Linux would’ve had a chance to beat MS, even then it would’ve required settling on a single GUI (which is arguably half of why Windows became a standard, the other half being a common API), a common build (so the same tools/utilities are always available), and a commitment to put usability for the inexperienced user first.
These are what MS did in the 1980’s to make Windows attractive to the 3 groups who contend with desktops: developers, business management, end users.
All this without considering the systems management requirements of even an SMB with perhaps a dozen users (let alone an enterprise with tens of thousands).
Sorry to hear you had a bad experience. For what it’s worth, I haven’t run into laptop problems like those you described.
You’ve reminded me that people who declare “linux isn’t ready” often make the same mistakes:
- Expecting Linux to work 100%, with no effort, on random hardware that was built specifically for Windows.
- Expecting random google results to yield good guidance on a subject that’s well understood by a tiny fraction of those who know Windows. The web is an ocean of bad advice (but there are some worthwhile islands).
- Expecting to be able to manage any new operating system as well as the one you’ve been running your life with for decades.
Proficiency with any tool takes practice. More so when you don’t have an abundance of good mentors and pre-packaged solutions for what you want to do with it. That doesn’t make the tool bad. It doesn’t mean it lacks usability. It mostly just means that you haven’t learned how to use it yet.
To anyone who is seriously considering a move away from Windows:
- Set your expectations appropriately. Linux is not a drop-in replacement for Windows. IMHO, it shouldn’t be.
- Some things that you take for granted are not universal. Much like a new language (especially your second one) even the basics are often different.
- There is a lot to learn. If you have the patience and humility to be in kindergarten again, you’ll probably do fine. If you expect to be a master quickly, you’ll probably get frustrated.
- You don’t have to tackle the whole learning curve all at once.
- A few notable Windows programs won’t run on Linux. If you have very rigid and specific software needs, like “Photoshop is the only tool that I can use to make a living”, you might consider running those in a virtual machine, or on a second system, or dual-booting. If that’s too complicated for you, then you probably shouldn’t try to force yourself into Linux. Maybe try again in a few years.
- There is more than one GUI (desktop environment) for Linux. Some look a bit like Windows. Some look more like MacOS. Others look like something you’ve never seen before. You can test drive many of them by booting from a USB “live image”. In case none of them feels quite right, most can be customized. To get started, just pick one, and know that you’re not married to it; you can always switch desktops later, without even reinstalling the OS. Your applications will still run.
- Investigate hardware before leaping into it. Linux supports a great many devices out of the box, and even more with a bit of configuration. If you have the means, you can buy a system pre-packaged for Linux, including drivers, just as most systems are for Windows. If not, chances are that you can still find or build a system that runs it well. Plan ahead.
For reference, there’s a lot of diversity among people running Linux, from software developers to secretaries, from children to octogenarians. I imagine it’s easier for kids, since they don’t have as much to un-learn, but the Grandparents in my family switched to it from Windows and didn’t want to go back. If they can do it, I think it’s fair to say that many others can, too.
Expecting Linux to work 100%, with no effort, on random hardware that was built specifically for Windows.
Thats ALL PCs.
Expecting random google results to yield good guidance on a subject that’s well understood by a tiny fraction of those who know Windows. The web is an ocean of bad advice (but there are some worthwhile islands).
Alright, fair enough. But then within the linux operating system, it should make those islands official sources for quality information. Make them easier to find.
Thats ALL PCs.
Nope. (example) (example) (example)
(And if you don’t like ready-made PCs, you can always build your own.)
Alright, fair enough. But then within the linux operating system, it should make those islands official sources for quality information. Make them easier to find.
Heh. It would be nice to have such things handed to us on a platter, wouldn’t it?
In reality, there is no central organization in a position to speak for the whole linux ecosystem, and a great deal of the work and knowledge comes from unpaid volunteers acting on their own. Standing out from the noise on the internet is harder than you might think.
However, there are companies selling direct support, and communities focused on specific topics, and wikis run by some of the most popular linux distributions, and classes, and books, and various other good information sources.
And, even if you have no money to spend, you will eventually come across some of the community-maintained gems just by regularly dedicating time to learning. Finding good info gets easier with practice.
I’ve run Linux on custom built gaming computers. You still get all the same problems that dude is talking about. And no, forums and wikis are not a replacement for the os just working. A good analogy for Linux that a friend came up with. “Linux is a tank, it can blast through anything, you can do tons with it. But it doesn’t come with a cup holder. You decide to install one. But when you do so the shift lever doesn’t work anymore. So you move the shift knob over, now the AC doesn’t work. You fix that and now the tank won’t turn right, unless the AC is off.” You get the point.
It sounds like many of your problems could be fixed by installing kde plasma6 instead.
I think this supports his argument. Having to research desktop environments to decide which is optimized for the potential problems a new user may face, then finding a distro that packages that DE is quite frankly too much for the average user.
I’d argue between 3% and 5% of PC users are willing to research and experiment to find the flavor of Linux that truly works for them.
Linux has come a long way, I still remember using Gentoo as a daily driver and seeing Linux cross 1% of desktop share, but the average desktop user doesn’t know the difference between a kernel and a colonel, and they don’t want to.
Nah, completely wrong take.
Linux can be adapted to fit any use case you have, and that’s an important part of its flexibility. What you really are getting at is that mass producing a machine with an OS built into it is convenient for consumers. See Android phones or Steam decks for evidence of this convenience being important to the sale of Linux based devices.
In the not too distant future, windows will go out of fashion for the home desktop PC. Someone will sell a cheap and cool arm based PC with a decent distribution. It will be a slow win, nothing like what we saw from macOS.
I was going to write a reply to that guy about how linux doesn’t work for the common man, but then you come in and write shakespear level articulation that blows away my tiny brain cell reply.
It’s just such a complete analysis of the situation. The only thing missing is how linux requires you to use the terminal. Yes, REQUIRES. People can say it doesn’t all they want, but go on any self help guide, and any problem you have, is “step 1, open terminal”.
What would you say to someone who doesn’t know what terminal is?
“Ok, open terminal?”
“Whats that?”
“Its like a command line, but better”
“Whats a command line?”
And this is why 96% of people AREN’T using linux. Most windows users don’t understand how windows works. Most drivers don’t understand how cars work. And linux you HAVE TO be a mechanic to use linux. Because unlike windows and mac, linux isn’t designed to be used by idiots. And most of the world are idiots. Hell, I’m an idiot.
And until linux can fix itself FOR the user, no user will even take a look. Even if there were a single distro that did all that, you’d have to convince people “this linux isn’t like the other linux”. It’s the main reason that even though Android is linux, it stays far far away from that branding. It doesn’t want the linux stink.
And from what I’ve seen, every developer WANTS linux to be hard to use. Like a right of passage. “I had to endure these learning curves, and so shall you!”
That’s a marketing problem, not a functionality problem. The terminal isn’t really hard to use.
People used BASIC easily back in the 80’s. My mom did it back then, and she isn’t tech savvy.
The terminal isn’t really hard to use.
I’ve been trying to learn it for 15 years. The only thing I’ve learned is that sudo stands for super user. Outside of that, I’ve learned nothing about how to use terminal other than copy/pasting other peoples commands.
For most cases, you need to use the package manager (apt is the standard for Debian-based) . You also need ‘grep’ to select a specific phrase sometimes.
But that problem normally occur when you are using proprietary software. You’ll need to download packages (wget), add repository packages and run shell scripts for most proprietary software, and I think most people would use copy-paste in those scenarios.
If you’ve been unable to learn some basic command line in 15 years perhaps computing is not your forte.
I have heard this argument for over 20 years… “You have to use the terminal in Linux, so user hostile”.
Well, try to do ANY windows sysadmin tasks without Powershell… See how far that gets you. Need to manage Exchange? Powershell. Need to change some network settings? Powershell… It is even getting more and more unavoidable. Now Powershell doesn’t even have a good terminal environment, sane parameters or good usability. And a general lack of documentation for all the obscure incantations.
In the meantime KDE on Linux is wonderful, fully integrated with the system, easy software maintenance (on Kubuntu for example) and with a sane settings menu… You hardly need a terminal at all. Try to find that in Windows.
So sorry, this argument is either invalid, out of date or Microsoft is even worse.
I don’t know what powershell is. I just use control panel. Even though I have Windows 7, I have it laid out like Windows XP, because thats what I know.
So if I wanted to do something in network, I go to network settings.
Spitting facts. I generally use Linux for any server need, but I’m convinced that people using Linux as a desktop have absolutely nothing to do all day and can spend all their time researching, tweaking, and installing a mishmash of software to make it usable for them.
The best desktop experience I’ve had with Linux is Fedora Kinoite and ironically it cuts against the grain by locking down the base system and making it immutable. Same thing with Bazzite on my TV PC. I can just sit down and achieve my task I needed a computer for without having to waste time screwing around with anything extra.
If they can’t bring the people to Win 11, they bring Win 11 to the people instead?
Just install Linux, it’s not that hard. Or at least get a Mac or a Chromebook…
If you MUST use windows for work or something, at least install OpenShell. Otherwise, use Linux. It’s so easy to switch for most use cases. Even gaming on Linux has come a very long way.
On machines where I have to use windows I run start10 to replace the start menu with something a little more bearable. I imagine there’s a FOSS equivalent but I bought a license years and years ago so I’ve never bothered to search.
Seriously though, in W11 it’s super easy to disable this shit.
Start Menu:
Personalization > Start > “Show recommendations for tips, app promotions, and more.” (OFF)Lock Screen:
Personalization > Lock Screen > Change from “Weather ‘and more’” to “None”.Search:
Settings > Search > Permissions & History > Turn it ALL off. Cloud, Work/School, etc.See and my friends give me shit for running KDE, soon they’ll have to click past a Viagra ad to do so.
Is there a way to pre-emptively block this? Something in hosts.txt? Registry?
The very first day I see those ads in my Win10 will be the day I uninstall Win and go Linux.
I just recently installed the windows 11 LTSC IOT enterprise edition, it contains no ads and is meant for corporate use. I got it off of the massgravel Dev site. The only thing pre-installed is the edge browser. Boots way faster and my games are right there. I have it dual-boot alongside Ubuntu. I recommend it if you have to use windows for some programs.
10 LTSC can be gotten from there as well and is also supported for a good, long while if anyone prefers it over 11 LTSC.
And LTSC has a 10 year life cycle.
I’m unironically beginning to view Microsoft as one of my favorite companies. They treat their cattle just right. Hopefully they’ll start arbitrarily deleting local files.
Is there anything the cattle won’t tolerate? LETS FIND OUT
Hopefully they’ll start arbitrarily deleting local files.
They already do that. If you click “yes” on everything they recommend like good cattle, they’ll upload the contents of your user folders to OneDrive and delete the local copies.
